FS7: New Sony F7 XDCAM 4K Super 35mm Camcorder

starcentral said:
Links please. :cool:

(skin tones)
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hahaha - no can do I'm afraid - I've only recently started shooting video with it (although I've done a load of stills with it for both work and play). It was b-cam on some stuff for Sony funnily enough (Playstation as opposed to camera department!) - cutting alongside FS700 to OddeseyQ pro res. NDAs all over the place.
 
I usually go back and forth a million times when Sony releases a new camera system. I usually end up in the same place though. For me...this time...Its looking more and more like I'll go ahead and wait for the C300 Mark II to appear sometime in April 2015 (estimate). I really like all the specs of the FS-7. For me...the color science is very important. Its just personal preference. I am just more partial to the Cinema EOS color science than Sony. I know you can pull anything out of the Sony cameras...even the reeeeeally green A7s...but for me, its just so easy to get a solid image out of the Cinema EOS line.

I'm sure I'll get some flack for this post. I do like the FS-7 a lot though. I also think the next generation of the C300 is going to be killer. Worth the wait just to satisfy my curiosity.
 
ReelWorksMedia said:
I usually go back and forth a million times when Sony releases a new camera system. I usually end up in the same place though. For me...this time...Its looking more and more like I'll go ahead and wait for the C300 Mark II to appear sometime in April 2015 (estimate). I really like all the specs of the FS-7. For me...the color science is very important. Its just personal preference. I am just more partial to the Cinema EOS color science than Sony. I know you can pull anything out of the Sony cameras...even the reeeeeally green A7s...but for me, its just so easy to get a solid image out of the Cinema EOS line.

I'm sure I'll get some flack for this post. I do like the FS-7 a lot though. I also think the next generation of the C300 is going to be killer. Worth the wait just to satisfy my curiosity.
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+1
Very, very tempting to go for FS7 but it is to interesting to not wait for Canon and see what they will come out with.
 
I'll bet Filmconvert, Magic Bullet or similar companies could come up with a 10 second look to instantly make Sony look like (fill in the blank).
 
gene_can_sing said:
+1.

I agree. It's so very easy to make Sony footage look however you want. Not sure why so many struggle with it.
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I've never owned a Sony camera to be honest. I have shot of the F-55 a few times and liked the camera. This is just based on my personal opinion of the footage I have seen in the wild. I seldom like how Sony is either graded by the user....or handles the grade.

I personally own and shoot RED and Canon EOS and know those cameras well and find them easy to get to a solid end result. My opinions of the difficulties working with Sony footage is sticktly based on technical oddities I read from world experiences from other users.

I am sure you understand that color science and the ability to grade are two very different things...correct?
 
ReelWorksMedia said:
I've never owned a Sony camera to be honest. I have shot of the F-55 a few times and liked the camera. This is just based on my personal opinion of the footage I have seen in the wild. I seldom like how Sony is either graded by the user....or handles the grade.

I personally own and shoot RED and Canon EOS and know those cameras well and find them easy to get to a solid end result. My opinions of the difficulties working with Sony footage is sticktly based on technical oddities I read from world experiences from other users.

I am sure you understand that color science and the ability to grade are two very different things...correct?
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Of course I understand the difference between color science and grading.

Overall, I'm very happy with the looks I'm personally getting from S-Log. Nothing fancy in grading, just some levels, saturation and some quick tweaks on curves. I didn’t spend more than a few minutes getting the look I wanted for these shots. Some are slightly stylized with a slight green or slight blue tint, some just normal.

I’m always curious as to what critics are getting from their OWN WORK that makes it so superior to Sony. I’d love to see some samples.

Here’s a larger image since DVXUser scales the .jpg down.

www.builtbyugene.com/images_client/SkinTones.jpg

SkinTones.jpg
 
gene_can_sing said:
Of course I understand the difference between color science and grading.

Overall, I'm very happy with the looks I'm personally getting from S-Log. Nothing fancy in grading, just some levels, saturation and some quick tweaks on curves. I didn’t spend more than a few minutes getting the look I wanted for these shots. Some are slightly stylized with a slight green or slight blue tint, some just normal.

I’m always curious as to what critics are getting from their OWN WORK that makes it so superior to Sony. I’d love to see some samples.

Here’s a larger image since DVXUser scales the .jpg down.

www.builtbyugene.com/images_client/SkinTones.jpg

View attachment 93260
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Great stuff Gene.
 
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gene_can_sing said:
Of course I understand the difference between color science and grading.



I’m always curious as to what critics are getting from their OWN WORK that makes it so superior to Sony. I’d love to see some samples
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Sure thing. This was shot a few years ago. Feel free to watch the intro which is obviously DSRL. The real video doesn't start until about :29 sec.

Sounds like you may have a slight condescending tone in your responses. Sorry if my post is rubbing you the wrong way. I was clearly just voicing a personal preference in optics and is completely not intended to offend Sony shooters. I do really like many projects I have seen shot on Sony cameras...it's just a personal preference for my current tools at hand. Images do help and I think your Jpegs do look really nice. You may state that I am criticizing...but actually there is a large part of me that wants to be sold on the Sony color science. As stated...I have never owned Sony camera...but have had my finger onthe FS7 triggerfor a long while.


Skin in tones are decent after the intro at :29

http://youtu.be/VcMU5PG_cHA
 
I am not stating my videos are superior in any way. If anything I am clearly stating that what I do is always a work in progress. Always a teacher....always a student. Learning new things everyday. That's why I am here...discussing this with you :)
 
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ReelWorksMedia said:
Sure thing. This was shot a few years ago. Feel free to watch the intro which is obviously DSRL. The real video doesn't start until about :29 sec.

Sounds like you may have a slight condescending tone in your responses. Sorry if my post is rubbing you the wrong way. I was clearly just voicing a personal preference in optics and is completely not intended to offend Sony shooters. I do really like many projects I have seen shot on Sony cameras...it's just a personal preference for my current tools at hand. Images do help and I think your Jpegs do look really nice. You may state that I am criticizing...but actually there is a large part of me that wants to be sold on the Sony color science. As stated...I have never owned Sony camera...but have had my finger onthe FS7 triggerfor a long while.

Skin in tones are decent after the intro at :29

http://youtu.be/VcMU5PG_cHA
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In terms of me being condescending, I think it’s quite the opposite (NOT picking you out specifically) in that many non-Sony users just repeat what they’ve heard: “Sony has great features, but you cannot get anything but a plastic, video look.” How many times have you heard that? And yes, it's quite condescending towards us.

Guess what? By spreading around such miss-information you are hurting Sony DP’s chances of getting work because you’ve convinced an X amount of producers and directors that Sony isn’t capable of anything but the local news. So yeah, your miss-information is costing us dollars and bookings.

Cameras evolve. Personally, I never got an FS100 because I did not like the image much, but the S-Log on my FS700 is fantastic and has a very different look than the generation one, FS100. But people keep wanting to bring up the FS100 because they have it in their head that the FS100 somehow defined Sony because it was their first affordable Super 35mm. Like somehow S-Log and FS100 Cinetones are still the same thing when they are not.

Same with RED. Looking back on RED One MX footage, it looks OK, but nothing like the RED Epic Dragon which has a very nice image, but people keep referring back to the first generation camera, like somehow the system hasn’t evolved and that RED's just not capable of getting good skin tones.

And the reason I ask the critics of Sony to post their OWN WORK, is because they will post shots from David Fincher’s Red Epic movie or Shane Hurlbut’s C500 film. But those costed like $50,000,000 to make with the best people in the business, so that’s on a different level. I want to see what the average Joe like myself is getting out of their cameras, that makes it so superior to my “plastic, video looking” Sony.

And guess what? Usually what they post is something that’s is very easily attainable with about 5 clicks of the mouse, even with…. “GASP….” Sony.
 
Sigh. I'm pretty tired of this "debate."

"You're not a real DP unless you use the GruntMaster 6000!"

Here's the most utterly ridiculous part of all of this - the end viewer doesn't care, and doesn't have a discerning enough palette to understand the nuances in the technology that are being quibbled about. RED, Sony, Arri... even Canon... they can all get you a product that impresses the average Joe. Have you seen how popular cat videos shot on cell phones are on youtube? No matter how much we love our craft - don't kid yourself - it's the content, not the camera, that drives viewership. And the professional cameras you can get for $3k+ today do incredible things.

Sony and Canon cameras offer you more color finishing in-camera, if you want it. RED cameras push the look to post production. But whether in camera or in post, any of these cameras can be butchered or made incredible. And while every DP is welcome to have a favorite camera (mine is the Sony F35), if you can't get a good, audience pleasing, look out of a competing camera, honestly that reflects on you - not on the camera.

Can we all just hug it out? What's amazing about the FS7 isn't that it goes head to head with the F65 and Red Dragon and Alexa (it doesn't) - it's that it offers very affordable flexibility in a small lightweight package.
 
These are all very valid points. Not exactly where I was originally steering this thread. Sorry about that and I undestand your POV and largely agree with you. my original comment was strictly color science related and I do understand companies evolve. That's a great thing.

I could definitely see myself using the FS7 in the near future. That's part of the reason I check this thread everyday :)

Just historically, I have had tendancy to lean towards other companies R&D when in comes to color science....at least up to this point. I never ready wanted to get into a discussion of grading.


Also...the video I posted, I did shoot, direct, and edited it. I agree with you. Always nice to show original works. Given...my example is a few years old so it's a little dated.
 
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Viddovation said:
Sigh. I'm pretty tired of this "debate."

"You're not a real DP unless you use the GruntMaster 6000!"

Here's the most utterly ridiculous part of all of this - the end viewer doesn't care, and doesn't have a discerning enough palette to understand the nuances in the technology that are being quibbled about. RED, Sony, Arri... even Canon... they can all get you a product that impresses the average Joe. Have you seen how popular cat videos shot on cell phones are on youtube? No matter how much we love our craft - don't kid yourself - it's the content, not the camera, that drives viewership. And the professional cameras you can get for $3k+ today do incredible things.

Sony and Canon cameras offer you more color finishing in-camera, if you want it. RED cameras push the look to post production. But whether in camera or in post, any of these cameras can be butchered or made incredible. And while every DP is welcome to have a favorite camera (mine is the Sony F35), if you can't get a good, audience pleasing, look out of a competing camera, honestly that reflects on you - not on the camera.

Can we all just hug it out? What's amazing about the FS7 isn't that it goes head to head with the F65 and Red Dragon and Alexa (it doesn't) - it's that it offers very affordable flexibility in a small lightweight package.
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yes, yes...and absolutely. That got a little far beyond my original though. I apologize to the thread readers. Not where I intended this to go.

To to bring it back in...FS7 still looks like a very promising camera.

Anyone have any any new footage?

Also, anyone know any more about how the speed booster ultra is working in it?
 
ReelWorksMedia said:
yes, yes...and absolutely. That got a little far beyond my original though. I apologize to the thread readers. Not where I intended this to go.

To to bring it back in...FS7 still looks like a very promising camera.

Anyone have any any new footage?

Also, anyone know any more about how the speed booster ultra is working in it?
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No apology needed, we're all adults on here (at least, I hope!)

One serious question (if you don't mind)? What are you waiting to see, in terms of footage (?), that would make up your mind about the FS7?
After all, it has the same sensor and picture profiles as the F5 (someone in the know can confirm or deny this?), so if you aren't happy with the colour science of that camera, surely the FS7 isn't going to reveal anything new?
 
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