FS7: New Sony F7 XDCAM 4K Super 35mm Camcorder

yoclay said:
Personally, I don't think the IQ of any of these cameras is much above the F3, if at all. The latter continues to look great and unless a deliverable is in 4K, I defy any client to tell the difference at FullHD. What you get is slo-mo in a more ergonomic body and internal shooting for broadcast.
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Yes I agree.
 
Sttratos said:
You can call it what you want. But it is then a toaster or lunch box for DOPs with a global shutter, film gamut colors, better RAW recorder integration, better EVF, more features and better designed to fit a high end workflow.
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So true.

But the FS7 has also SLog3 (slog2 will be added later) and the new s-gamut3.cine as colour profile.
If the colour filter in front of the sensor has the same range as the F55 filter, nobody knows.
Global shutter is huge, but I don't even miss it with my FS100 - to be honest.
The RAW integration is not that bad with the FS7. You have the additional back with v-mount and
RAW out, attach the O7Q and here you go with RAW.
And the EVF integration with seperate LUTs for each SDI-out is very nice too.

If it will be accepted or not: FS7 + XCA-FS7 + O7Q = hi end RAW machine, if you want it.
It's not made for this, but it's possible at least.

The F55 is the movie machine in Sony's lineup (beside the F65) and has of course the edge here.
But can you strip the F55 down to be a lightweight doco cam easily? No.

Horses for courses...
 
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Liam Hall said:
I don't se how you can say I'm completely wrong. That's more than a touch arrogant. You even doubt your own assertion by using the word IF more than once.

I don't know how much better the XAVC internal codec on the FS7 will be compared to the internal codec on the FS700 or the F5, but I've put my money where my mouth is and bought an FS7. In a couple of weeks we will see.

Worth noting, the target market for this camera is not the commercial industry. It's designed for the single shooter/small unit jobs where 10bit 4k internal should hit a sweet spot.
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I apologize for sounding arrogant Liam but read your comment to Mitch, although he can handle himself, I felt a lack of respect in your post. You have every right to disagree but I respectfully disagree with your post insinuating Mitch's insight was intended to sell more odyssey's. We should all know by now thats not his MO, he's always been user first than equipment.
 
yoclay said:
Personally, I don't think the IQ of any of these cameras is much above the F3, if at all. The latter continues to look great and unless a deliverable is in 4K, I defy any client to tell the difference at FullHD. What you get is slo-mo in a more ergonomic body and internal shooting for broadcast.
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I'm updating my reel at the moment (in the vain hope of landing a 2nd/3rd-unit Cam Op or Best Boy gig on the next Pirates of the Caribbean movie shooting down here next year!) and I'm looking at a near equal mix of F3, F5 and Alexa side-by-side... I'd love to see if anyone can pick which is which!

The aesthetic of the F3 (in 10-bit SLOG) relative to the F5 is as near to identical as you're going to get IMO.
 
In the end "IQ" is not something you can measure with scientific objectivity.

We still have to wait what the FS7 can deliver.
As already said here, I don't think that the difference between FS7 - (F5 and even F55)
will be huge.

What's a filmic response in colour and DR? It's an interesting question and I had great
success in grading linear RAW footage from the BMCC. But RAW isn't suitable for every
job - in fact it isn't for more than 90% of mine.

The goal (for me) would be to be as close as possible to RAW with 10bit compressed.
Here we go with the SLog profiles, wherein I see SGamut3.cine/SLog3 as the key
profile for me.
I studied the response of the Sony SLog curves and always found nice articles from Art Adams:

http://www.dvinfo.net/article/acquisition/sonyxdcam/sony_sgamut_vs_sgamut3.html

http://www.dvinfo.net/article/post/making-the-sony-f55-look-filmic-with-resolve-9.html

Always interesting for your own comparisons is the CML, if you don't own a bunch of cameras:
http://www.cinematography.net/RAW-Comp.html
 
It's definitely not.

Please explain why the F5/55 looks much different than the FS7 will (probably) do.
I don't see any reason besides global shutter and colour filter yet.

But I'm really interested in this topic.

Aren't we here for discussion anyway?
 
Not that this adds anything to the current conversation...but man...I hope they improve on the menu system in the F-55. Its really kinda clunky. Great camera...the menu system seems dated. Hopefully they put a little more user end polish on the methodology.
 
Erik Wittbusch said:
But I'm really interested in this topic.

Aren't we here for discussion anyway?
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Me too, and yes we are. Some people are not interested in discussion, but prefer argument, put-downs, elitism and massaging their egos. Not aiming that at anyone in particular, just a call for humility, friendliness, helpfulness and neutrality on all these forums.

Steve
 
Marino215 said:
I apologize for sounding arrogant Liam but read your comment to Mitch, although he can handle himself, I felt a lack of respect in your post. You have every right to disagree but I respectfully disagree with your post insinuating Mitch's insight was intended to sell more odyssey's. We should all know by now thats not his MO, he's always been user first than equipment.
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Hey Marino, I didn't mean to be disrespectful, I did say I normally like Mitch's erudite posts, but I do concede it was a bit of cheap shot, albeit meant in fun. So, I apologies for that.

Cheers,

L
 
Erik Wittbusch said:
It's definitely not.

Please explain why the F5/55 looks much different than the FS7 will (probably) do.
I don't see any reason besides global shutter and colour filter yet.

But I'm really interested in this topic.

Aren't we here for discussion anyway?
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It remains to be SEEN whether the processor pipeline on the FS7 is identical to the F5/55, or not. Historically, on Sony's middle and lower priced models, especially if they come from a different division than the CineAlta Division, there are lower cost components in the processing stream. Not saying that this is the case for the FS7, just noting Sony's history on such things.
 
Yes.

There was a huge difference between F3 vs. FS100. The FS100 did never have cine-gammas or log profiles.
When you look at FS700 vs. F5 there is more or less the same difference.
The FS7 seems to hang in between existing models and brings specs that are close to the F5 .
We don't know anything yet, but on Sonys website they say 16bit A/D which is at least better than expected.

We need to wait until somebody has time enough to test the footage. As long as I see this preview:
http://www.dvinfo.net/article/acqui...s7-l-s-s-shoulder-mount-camcorder-part-1.html

the FS7 and the F5 share a lot - even the menu system, LUT control, scopes function.

I really like to see some ungraded 10bit XAVC-I in S.Gamut3.cine/SLog3 footage.
My dealer told me, that there won't be any cameras to sell before december... :(
 
I'm interested in whether the XAVC HD output of the FS7 will be better than that of the F3. I immediately heard that the F5 looked quite a bit better though I haven't compared personally. Anecdotally it was supposed to be sharper and cleaner looking ( not neccesarily noise - maybe enhancement?) .
I have compared the F3's SDI output with the FS700>Odyssey 7Q's 4K2HD monitor output and the 7Q looked startlingly better. As I understand it the 7Q is doing a live down convert from 4K Raw - might this be similar to what the F5 does and thus presumably what the FS7 does? So far reports say the FS7 looks like the F5 but there isn't much out there.

Has anyone here done any of those comparisons.

Incidently i asked this question of Juan Martinez in an email and his answer was vague, but pointed to possible differences:

"The FS7 shares imaging technology with the F5 but is different in many important ways..."
 
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Lenilenapi said:
"The FS7 shares imaging technology with the F5 but is different in many important ways..."
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That has got to be one of the most deliberately ambiguous statements I have heard in a long time.
Sounds like something coming from a masterful politician.
Gives you hope, but amounts to zero information the more you look at it.
 
I'm holding off from Pre ordering just yet. May opt for the body and lens kit which will be shipping slightly later.

I too need to see a bit more footage and some actual downloadable files. I hope we are not surprised by highlight aliasing like on the A7s and on the FS700 internal recording. Keeping my fingers crossed that we'll not see any such issues. All the specs just seem too good to be true and the price point is pretty good too. Just going to hold off a little longer. My F3 will keep soldiering onwards in the meantime :)

Any firm UK delivery dates yet?

Also any more footage or reviews? I've seen a few tweets and pictures of the FS7 on Instagram but nothing substantial. I keep checking this thread every five minutes or so.

Please keep sharing your thoughts guys.
 
surinder said:
I hope we are not surprised by highlight aliasing like on the A7s and on the FS700 internal recording. Keeping my fingers crossed that we'll not see any such issues. All the specs just seem too good to be true and the price point is pretty good too. Just going to hold off a little longer. My F3 will keep soldiering onwards in the meantime :)
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http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...corder&p=1986477745&viewfull=1#post1986477745

I'm glad that the industry is apparently so healthy that so many people are willing to throw money down pre-ordering cameras without full and proper testing (again).

But I think you are very wise to wait, not least because after the initial rush there'll be the discounted bundles with lenses and/or accessories, just like there was for the Fs100, FS700, F5... Not to mention the paid firmware updates that eventually get bundled in...
 
Wow these look great for future FS7 owners.

I trust everyone has already seen these as per the other thread, but incase you haven't....

untitled.jpg
 
Liam Hall said:
Whilst I normally enjoy your erudite posts Mitch, I'm going to ignore this one since I'm assuming you'll be happier if FS700 users stick rather than twist and use your product as an upgrade path rather than investing in the FS7.
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I think you are misinterpreting me. I'm very excited by the FS7, and so is all of Convergent Design. We believe that they pair together quite well and that we will sell many Odyssey7Q units to pair with it. Even when used just as a monitor, it is still an incredible value.

That all said, I am just trying to put things into perspective with this conversation. There are always assumptions being made and where they are incorrectly based and I have information that I can share (both by knowledge and by what I'm not under NDA for) then I do. Just trying to keep the conversation accurate.

This is not my first rodeo. I've been around for a long time and have participated in this way for years. No one model camera is going to sway me from that.
 
Liam Hall said:
Hey Marino, I didn't mean to be disrespectful, I did say I normally like Mitch's erudite posts, but I do concede it was a bit of cheap shot, albeit meant in fun. So, I apologies for that.

Cheers,

L
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I'm just catching up on this thread and made it to this one now.

No harm, no foul. Apology accepted. Moving on.
 
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