New RED camera?

Paul schefz said:
epic MX and epic dragon can do 120fps @ 4K with the mini mags.....compression is pretty horrible at that point though.....sensors are cropped and i don't think anyone would really use this for 4K delivery.....even with existing high end RED dragon.....
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Does red still crop the sensor when you dial up the fps and/or dial down the res?

Bummer, thought they would have fixed that flaw out by now.
 
That's pretty common. For instance on a Phantom you might get upwards of 100k fps but your image is severely cropped like to 16 pixels or so. Maybe 2016 will be the year they ramp things up a bit.
 
Paul schefz said:
epic MX and epic dragon can do 120fps @ 4K with the mini mags.....compression is pretty horrible at that point though.....sensors are cropped and i don't think anyone would really use this for 4K delivery.....even with existing high end RED dragon.....
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Compression is pretty far from horrible at that point (4K). If you want horrible compression, try the FS7 150fps in (only) 1080
 
red crops the sensor according to resolution......so yes, you can shoot 2K on red but you are using a very, very small part of the sensor...
the higher fps comes with the drawback of higher compression....4K 120fps is the highest compression setting......things really start to look funny...
 
Yoak said:
Compression is pretty far from horrible at that point (4K). If you want horrible compression, try the FS7 150fps in (only) 1080
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i own the FS7 now and have never shot in HD or 150fps....i don't doubt that it does not look very pretty....
my experience and tests with my own epic MX taught me not to go past 5:1 compression since even 6:1 shows loss of image quality....does not mean you can shoot at 8:1 or 10:1 in some cases and get away with it.....but 120fps @4K requires? 12:1? 15:1? and that from the cropped sensor.....i wouldn't use that for anything but HD delivery at best.....and again: this is from the existing high end bodies, so why should we expect anything better from the lowest end body red has ever hinted at releasing?
 
Paul schefz said:
i own the FS7 now and have never shot in HD or 150fps....i don't doubt that it does not look very pretty....
my experience and tests with my own epic MX taught me not to go past 5:1 compression since even 6:1 shows loss of image quality....does not mean you can shoot at 8:1 or 10:1 in some cases and get away with it.....but 120fps @4K requires? 12:1? 15:1? and that from the cropped sensor.....i wouldn't use that for anything but HD delivery at best.....and again: this is from the existing high end bodies, so why should we expect anything better from the lowest end body red has ever hinted at releasing?
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It's not as good as normal speed but it's definitely far from being horrible. It's slightly softer and some little bit of aliasing can show up here and there but it's really not that bad.
 
Dragon compression rates are markedly different to MX hence compression is superior to Mx. So the question should be is this a dragon sensor or newer weapon sensor which could be inferred by mini mags which can record 2:1.

Whilst everyone is comparing this ( rightly ) with the BM 4.5 k product. Has anyone actually calculated how big BM files @ 4.5 raw are . Hence yes the media maybe cheaper etc but there is hidden price penalty in HD storage costs with the BM product that isn't immediately apparent and needs to be considered and costed into the operational costs of this unit.
 
yoclay said:
Tell that to the clients who ask for RED.

It's not about what cameras can do.
Heck you could probably use a GoPro for many jobs these days.
It's about how clients view pay scale and their expectations, not yours.
Any client who is accustomed to RED would not be happy if you showed up with a Blackmagic camera.
So no, Blackmagic is not the new RED, except for enduser's here who are still hoping to have the same level of quality for 1/10th the price.
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Ah okay now I get what you are saying and yes that is correct. But that's why you need to be able to market YOU and not the camera. But I am no dummy I know if you don't own a certain amount of camera that is a non starter for some clients. While others couldn't careless they just want it to look good
 
I have to admit I use my FS7 mostly as a 1080 cam, switching to Epic or Dragon for higher res stuff. Rearly had problems with the compression in 4K slow mo on the REDs. And I'm monitoring on mostly on a 4K screen.
This could have something to do with the actual footage being shot as well. It's usually action sport in bright daylight with a lot of amazing things happening in frame so you are less prone to notice artefacts I suppose (as opposed to a more arty shot where you look at everything in frame and less is happening)
 
Teaser campaigns should last a week or two at max. Let's hope RED has learned from past mistakes and start putting some hard facts out there sooner rather than later. They're not a start-up anymore...
 
Have not been following the Black Magic stuff. . .why do they have all the different prices for what is essentially the same cam? Just the different mounts and the extra .6k? What does the extra .6k net you?
 
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