New Panasonic MFT cine camera?
- Thread starter Ken1212
- Start date
stoneinapond
Veteran
V-Log L when captured in 10-bit is very decent. It's when you record in 8-bit that the problems surface.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Sure but it has 2 stops less DR than full v-log, no?
Barry_Green
Moderator
That's only relevant if the sensor supplies the extra stops over and above what VLog-L can encode.
Since no actual, real specifications have been released by the company, it would seem premature to be debating or be disappointed in what some rumor site posted.
As of now we don't know if there even is any camera coming, and if there is, we don't know what it's sensor can do, so there's no way of knowing whether VLog-L is a suitable choice or not.
Barry_Green
Moderator
How can a fictional sheet of numbers be outclassed by anything? Maybe I should make up some bigger numbers and send those to some random rumor site?
I have never understood the fascination with following or believing anything printed on those sites. Why not wait for the company to make an announcement, if there is even an announcement coming, and then worry about it when there's actually something real to discuss?
ahalpert
Major Contributor
I've been following rumor sites for a number of years and they can provide very accurate information within a month or two of the product launch. And usually, they give a pretty accurate indication of the confidence level they have in their information.
If you sent in a rumor, they would take it with a grain of salt. Maybe they would mention that some random new guy sent something in. But they discuss the track record of the specific sources who leak to them.
I think a lot of rumor site stuff is controlled leaks anyway.
At any rate, it's worth it for me to ponder upcoming alternatives while I'm within the return window for my a7siii.
If the camera has more than 13 stops of manufacturer-rated DR, I'll give you 5 upvotes.
If you sent in a rumor, they would take it with a grain of salt. Maybe they would mention that some random new guy sent something in. But they discuss the track record of the specific sources who leak to them.
I think a lot of rumor site stuff is controlled leaks anyway.
At any rate, it's worth it for me to ponder upcoming alternatives while I'm within the return window for my a7siii.
If the camera has more than 13 stops of manufacturer-rated DR, I'll give you 5 upvotes.
Tis little we have in our lives these days. Perchance we dream of things to come, brings merriment to our unbroken dreary weary. Cast ye not thy disparagement upon us who seek to rise out of the muck to dream of a brighter day. *
*Tis Paul going nuts cooped up indoors from the smoke.
Camera rumor sites have nothing on car rumor sites. And the manufacturers love playing along. Nissan's run the "400Z is coming" campaign for months before the official reveal - which also came out without the final specs a la Canon R5 - of couple of weeks ago.
Of course, while the early camera testers sign the NDA, all car rumor sites post numerous clips taken at Nürburgring. Camo or not, once something whizzes by at the Nordschleife, you kind of know it's coming.
Of course, while the early camera testers sign the NDA, all car rumor sites post numerous clips taken at Nürburgring. Camo or not, once something whizzes by at the Nordschleife, you kind of know it's coming.
Specs.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FtY5V0GGocnDMaTZrxh1xTXtmr894D85/view
BFD, you might say. DFD, others may say in return.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FtY5V0GGocnDMaTZrxh1xTXtmr894D85/view
BFD, you might say. DFD, others may say in return.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
ND is the biggie to me ?
A few assorted observations from the spec sheet:
- Dual native ISO of 400/2000 is slightly different from the GH5S (400/2500). Other cameras using a similar Micro 4/3 sensor are the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K (dual native ISO 800/3200) and Z Cam E2 (dual native ISO 500/2500).
- Genlock input port suggests that at least one intended usage of the camera includes multi-camera setups or live broadcast applications.
- Camera includes an AC to DC power adapter, but does not include a battery (or battery charger).
- Battery type is the larger Panasonic camcorder style battery (used in the DVX200 and EVA1). Record times are pretty long due to the battery size (and presumably the lack of screen or EVF).
- Camera includes a fan unlike the GH5S which was fanless. I assume that the reason for this is that the camera uses the newer processor from the S1H which generates more heat.
- Only significant bump in recording modes over the GH5S seems to be the ability to record 10-bit 4K 60 internally (GH5S could only do 8-bit 4K 60 internal or 10-bit 4K 60 external).
- Camera includes an Ethernet port for remote control and can also be powered over the Ethernet port (POE+). This is most useful for remote mounting types of applications as it only requires running a single Ethernet cable (up to 100m in length) to the camera, without needing to worry about a power source at the camera location.
- Seems like the camera doesn't have much in the way of a photo mode. The spec sheet is a bit unclear here, but it appears that it only has a single Standard picture profile for photos and that photos can only be captured via the tethering app.
FWIW, Panasonic has just released its streaming software suit. It's still in βήτα though.
If you are referring to the Lumix Tether for Streaming software, that has been out since June (https://www.panasonic.com/global/consumer/lumix/lumixtether.html). And they released an update at the end of September that makes it possible to use the camera over USB as a webcam input to a computer. Earlier versions were significantly more awkward to use and only compatible with a few streaming applications, but almost all streaming software can handle a USB webcam input: https://www.panasonic.com/global/consumer/lumix/lumix_webcam_software.html
I would expect that since this new BGH1 camera includes an Ethernet port, it may also include some form of direct streaming from the camera itself (without needing to tether the camera to a computer over USB). This would likely be similar to the built-in streaming features of some of Panasonic's more recent camcorders like the CX350 or CX10. Presumably this would allow for higher resolution streaming as well (1080p or maybe higher).
One downside of most of the USB webcam software that the various camera manufacturers rushed out the door this year, is that they are fairly limited in terms of resolution. Most are 720p or below, and I believe the Canon EOS Webcam Utility and Sony Imaging Edge Webcam apps for their cameras are actually limited to 576p. So while they might be useful for video conferencing, they tend to be less useful for more professional streaming applications.
A curious statement. Discussing rumors - especially ones which are very likely to be accurate - is one of the primary reasons anyone would continue to visit a site like this.
Indeed, commenting on cameras rumored to have obvious, head scratching, deficiencies may help companies rectify mistakes before they're made. People discussing rumors is, at the very least, an indication if a rumored camera will generate any interest if released. Talking rumors generates discussion on what is the state of the art, and whether or not the stats listed - whether accurate or not - compete well.
In other words, reading a thread like this can be educational in a broad sense even if the rumors turn out not to be true (and very educational if the rumors are right). For instance, it was interesting to read about the various implementations of dual ISO in a variety of cameras using the same sensor.
Reading about and commenting on rumors is, if nothing else, fun.
And in the vein, here's a link to camera conspiracies video on the rumors, and he too is not impressed:
https://youtu.be/GXWldH8l7RE
Barry_Green
Moderator
I guess it's all in how you want to spend your time. I find it an absolute waste to get worked up on what very well could be complete fiction, as so many of the rumor sites' predictions have been. I find these sites completely useless, and a profound waste of time. Any rumored thing that they're rumored to be rumoring about, is most definitely not available now, and therefore cannot have any impact on your current business, and will almost certainly be properly announced by the manufacturer before it's available, therefore giving you ample time to assess the actual product rather than whatever some rumor site says may be coming out.
I find it hard to believe that multibillion dollar companies with their own massive marketing departments would want to incorporate some no-name fly on the wall rumor site in their official launch procedures. Which means that the company is not the source of the rumors, and since the company is the only entitiy who actually knows what the truth is, then ... the source of the rumors is somehow a falsehood. Either the specs themselves are false, or they were leaked by some dishonest bastard who knowingly broke his promise by violating a nondisclosure agreement because he/she has no principles, and I find that dishonest bastards are rarely a good source of getting information from.
As for Nurburgring photos and spy shots, that's not what we're talking about here. Yes I see car and motorcycle spy shots all the time, and it's fun to know that something is coming, but rarely ever do I see a whole rumored spec sheet on a spy shot photo! These guys running these rumor sites print out whole spec sheets, which almost by definition cannot be the official company spec sheet. Unless their source is someone at the printing company, maybe that's a possible source for leaked information that could be accurate I guess. Then again, companies and governments have been known to leak inaccurate information specifically to identify where a leak is coming from, so that could be at play too.
Look, I know for a fact of at least one campaign where a company purposely leaked information about a competitor's product specifically to dispel interest in that competitor's presumed-upcoming but not yet announced product. The company doing the "leaking" just made stuff up. They examined the target company's model naming convention and (correctly) predicted an upcoming model number, and put together a "brochure" with half-assed specs. And the rumor sites ate it up and published it and everyone went crazy over it and trash-talked the (innocent) company's supposedly under-featured product. It takes someone with computer skills a couple of hours to disrupt another company's marketing plans and piss off the innocent company's expected customer base.
I've seen it happen. Unlike certain rumor sites or the folks who supply "info" to them, I am not making this up.
Is that what's happening here? I have no idea. Maybe it's legitimate leaked info. Maybe it's made-up horsecrap. But I learned long ago that there is no valid reason that I can think of to go looking at sites like that for ANY business-related purpose. Then again, I'm not a big fan of vaporware in the first place, and never bought into the 3K-for-$3K Scarlet even though that info was directly from the company. My stance is: when it's an actual buyable product, I'll look at it. If all it is is a press release or a leak, well, there have been too many Scarlets and Cineporters and Skully helmets to count, and those were all sincere good faith efforts to actually make products, not disinformation campaigns or dishonest leaks which (IMO) are much worse.
I find it hard to believe that multibillion dollar companies with their own massive marketing departments would want to incorporate some no-name fly on the wall rumor site in their official launch procedures. Which means that the company is not the source of the rumors, and since the company is the only entitiy who actually knows what the truth is, then ... the source of the rumors is somehow a falsehood. Either the specs themselves are false, or they were leaked by some dishonest bastard who knowingly broke his promise by violating a nondisclosure agreement because he/she has no principles, and I find that dishonest bastards are rarely a good source of getting information from.
As for Nurburgring photos and spy shots, that's not what we're talking about here. Yes I see car and motorcycle spy shots all the time, and it's fun to know that something is coming, but rarely ever do I see a whole rumored spec sheet on a spy shot photo! These guys running these rumor sites print out whole spec sheets, which almost by definition cannot be the official company spec sheet. Unless their source is someone at the printing company, maybe that's a possible source for leaked information that could be accurate I guess. Then again, companies and governments have been known to leak inaccurate information specifically to identify where a leak is coming from, so that could be at play too.
Look, I know for a fact of at least one campaign where a company purposely leaked information about a competitor's product specifically to dispel interest in that competitor's presumed-upcoming but not yet announced product. The company doing the "leaking" just made stuff up. They examined the target company's model naming convention and (correctly) predicted an upcoming model number, and put together a "brochure" with half-assed specs. And the rumor sites ate it up and published it and everyone went crazy over it and trash-talked the (innocent) company's supposedly under-featured product. It takes someone with computer skills a couple of hours to disrupt another company's marketing plans and piss off the innocent company's expected customer base.
I've seen it happen. Unlike certain rumor sites or the folks who supply "info" to them, I am not making this up.
Is that what's happening here? I have no idea. Maybe it's legitimate leaked info. Maybe it's made-up horsecrap. But I learned long ago that there is no valid reason that I can think of to go looking at sites like that for ANY business-related purpose. Then again, I'm not a big fan of vaporware in the first place, and never bought into the 3K-for-$3K Scarlet even though that info was directly from the company. My stance is: when it's an actual buyable product, I'll look at it. If all it is is a press release or a leak, well, there have been too many Scarlets and Cineporters and Skully helmets to count, and those were all sincere good faith efforts to actually make products, not disinformation campaigns or dishonest leaks which (IMO) are much worse.
But that's just the thing. The latest case is Canon R5, which did not meet the advertised standards. One could argue the same way with S5. So, this becomes a bit like with the news media - they say that some guy on YouTube is not a legitimate source but the major news gathering organizations are incorrect so often, that the difference between them and some guy/gal on YouTube becomes minuscule.
Similarly, most videos pros and enthusiasts know not to trust anyone until they see a dozen YouTube reviews. And, after that, they don't trust the YouTubers either. And then it becomes a question of selecting your sources.
PS. I wouldn't start a new thread based on a rumor unless there were photos or some other corroborating evidence beyond the usual "semi reliable".
As to who leaks what, when and how, it's straight from the world of politics.
PPS. And I follow car rumor sites as a fan, knowing that they can be wrong. For example, many sites reported that 400Z (Z Proto) wouldn't come out until 2023. Then, a month or so later, Nissan streamed a presentation, announcing that it'd come out in Q1 2021.
But, hey, I am only a fan in that business. Ryan is a pro and he knows a lot more than what gets out in the unofficial press.