New Panasonic MFT cine camera?

He seems to be making some good guesses. Sounds like a cool camera.

Now Panasonic just needs to make an auto focus 20x fast eng zoom for M43 to give it a run into the ENG world.
 
Are there any viable ENG lenses for the M43 mount? Seems even s35 format even got the 17-120mm and the 25-250mm.

2010-2019:
"So, the main advantage of M43 over s35 and FF35 is being able to make more compact zooms? Cool, let's only make slow small ones!"

"So, the M43 sensor has advantages in higher resolutions over 2/3", and it could replace it for ENG camera work? Cool, let's make the AF100 and then abandon that idea and not even allow our GH line to even try. "

2020:
"There is a big slowdown in camera sales, and a pandemic? Well, let's make some good cameras that no one is going to buy!"
 
James0b57 said:
Are there any viable ENG lenses for the M43 mount? Seems even s35 format even got the 17-120mm and the 25-250mm.
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No, there aren't any native Micro 4/3 ENG-style lenses at all.

There are only 4 native Micro 4/3 lenses with servo zoom support at all, and none of these have a very wide zoom range:
  • Panasonic 14-42mm f/3.5-5.6 PZ Power O.I.S.
  • Panasonic 45-175mm f/4.0-5.6 PZ OIS
  • Olympus 12-50mm f/3.5-6.3 EZ
  • Olympus 14-42mm f/3.5-5.6 EZ

None of these lenses are designed with ENG-style lens bodies with zoom rockers (two of them are pancake lenses). I think they were mostly geared toward casual hybrid shooters, and they were all released several years ago (2014 or earlier).

Panasonic did develop a 13x f/2.8-4.5 servo zoom lens for the DVX200 which used a Micro 4/3 sensor, but they never released anything similar as a standalone lens.

The odd thing, was that Blackmagic actually released a few studio-oriented cameras with Micro 4/3 lens mounts aimed at live productions and such, but ultimately the cameras are severely limited in their usefulness due to a lack of suitable native ENG style zoom lens options. And recently the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K has become fairly popular for live production due to its integration with Blackmagic's ATEM Mini live switchers, and I'd guess that there are some people that would be interested in a decent servo zoom lens option for that camera as well.

There has been significant growth in live streaming video over the past decade, but for some reason the major Japanese camera manufacturers have mostly ignored this application for their cameras until very recently. For example, there are very few cameras with integrated streaming support for the major streaming platforms (YouTube, Facebook, etc.). And it took a pandemic to prompt them to release software to allow usage of their cameras as a live streaming option through a computer (and they all did so within a matter of months, suggesting that it wasn't all that difficult to develop such a feature).

Now it seems like every new camera release has features geared toward producing video for internet delivery.
 
Theres the DZO MFT 20-70. I think that's a useful range (arri has the 45-135 now). But without a proper wide angle can it really be called an eng lens? And no built-in servo. But it looks nice and its T2.9 $1500

They make a 10-24 as well

dzoptics_dzo_6226611a_20_70mm_t2_9_m4_3_lens_1569419452000_1507682.jpg

The Fuji 18-55 comes in MFT

But yeah it seems like a missed opportunity that theres no 12-120 T2.9 for $4k in MFT
 
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To me ENG means.. (or rather a doc lens means)

Show the scene (12mm min on mft)
Mid the person (25mm on MFT)
Detail what the person is doing (50-70 on MFT with reasonable close focus distance)
No lens change.

A lens would IMO have to be 12-50 minimum

(a News Gathering lens would need at least 300mmFF to do things far away)


Probaly 2.8 to rival other sensor/lens options for light capture.
 
ahalpert said:
Theres the DZO MFT 20-70. I think that's a useful range (arri has the 45-135 now). But without a proper wide angle can it really be called an eng lens? And no built-in servo. But it looks nice and its T2.9 $1500

They make a 10-24 as well

View attachment 140619

The Fuji 18-55 comes in MFT

But yeah it seems like a missed opportunity that theres no 12-120 T2.9 for $4k in MFT
Click to expand...

I've rented and shot with that Fuji MKX18-55mm t/2.9 a few times. GREAT lens. Wish it cost a bit less. For me, I would have to get the Canon 18-80 instead, more reach, servo, IS, AF, too many useful things
I would lose buying the Fuji. I love our X-T3s but they aren't the C200 with RAW.
 
The DZO lenses are amazing. I like them better than the other brands because they have some soul. They look really sharp, yet also more creamy, with forgiving focus fall off, and gentle flares. Solid flare, and the back focus allows the lenses to get really close focus.

The only thing, they are compact lenses. I am interested in a giant 20X high speed ENG M43 lens for like $10K-$30K, depending on its performance and specs.

Like a 10-200 with an F1.8 that's sharp wide open and it no bigger than the Canon 17-120, and yeah, charge whatever you want for that bad boi.

But a 12-120 at an F2.8 eh, $10K, if it is good.

Something between those two and closer to a $20K would make more sense though. Professional ENG crews and companies could still afford them, as the camera bodies are so much cheaper now.


But yeah, I love those DZO M43 lenses. And since the P4K is so surprisingly good in low light, the T3 didn't hinder me at all. Even for documentary style shoots. However, I think the DZO's are absolutely perfect for those doc style commercials. The ones where corporations are trying to look authentic by showing real customers, yet are cinematic. The lenses really have a relaxed natural feel. And a set is $3K allowing for A/B cam shooting as well, for interviews. The Panasonic stills zooms have a sharp and crisp look that is nice too, but no other M43 lens I've used feels as much like s16 soul as the DZO. They also take anamorphic adapters really well.
 
davedv said:
No, there aren't any native Micro 4/3 ENG-style lenses at all.

There are only 4 native Micro 4/3 lenses with servo zoom support at all, and none of these have a very wide zoom range:
  • Panasonic 14-42mm f/3.5-5.6 PZ Power O.I.S.
  • Panasonic 45-175mm f/4.0-5.6 PZ OIS
  • Olympus 12-50mm f/3.5-6.3 EZ
  • Olympus 14-42mm f/3.5-5.6 EZ

None of these lenses are designed with ENG-style lens bodies with zoom rockers (two of them are pancake lenses). I think they were mostly geared toward casual hybrid shooters, and they were all released several years ago (2014 or earlier).

Panasonic did develop a 13x f/2.8-4.5 servo zoom lens for the DVX200 which used a Micro 4/3 sensor, but they never released anything similar as a standalone lens.

The odd thing, was that Blackmagic actually released a few studio-oriented cameras with Micro 4/3 lens mounts aimed at live productions and such, but ultimately the cameras are severely limited in their usefulness due to a lack of suitable native ENG style zoom lens options. And recently the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K has become fairly popular for live production due to its integration with Blackmagic's ATEM Mini live switchers, and I'd guess that there are some people that would be interested in a decent servo zoom lens option for that camera as well.

There has been significant growth in live streaming video over the past decade, but for some reason the major Japanese camera manufacturers have mostly ignored this application for their cameras until very recently. For example, there are very few cameras with integrated streaming support for the major streaming platforms (YouTube, Facebook, etc.). And it took a pandemic to prompt them to release software to allow usage of their cameras as a live streaming option through a computer (and they all did so within a matter of months, suggesting that it wasn't all that difficult to develop such a feature).

Now it seems like every new camera release has features geared toward producing video for internet delivery.
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Yeah, feels like a big missed opportunity.

At the local news station level, I saw budgets shrink like crazy, and one station moved to smaller camcorders. One of the reasons was that the camera people they were hiring had no experience with cameras before, and the handycams were easier for them, the other was budget. So, as big an opportunity the M43 ENG market could have been....

....you know what, I really don't understand it at all, really. Those giant s35 Canon zooms always seemed a little ridiculous to me. made for some front heavy rigs. Saw a couple guys wear out their arms trying to work with those, as they never got the balance right. Which was probably their fault more than the gear, but the Canon's are bigger and heavier than the traditional 2/3" F1.8 zooms. However, as we move into 4K and 8K, I don't see b4 2/3" (prism and all) having many advantages over the M43.

Seems like all we got was 10bit and raw in 2020. but camera companies are still flopping about, with odd designs and HDMI ports right where the operators hand or ear will be.


At least image quality is nice this year. Let's hope for better systems and ergonomics some day. Ever since the advent of digital HD, the whole manufacturing industry dove into this super insecure design philosophy of "idk idk idk idk, omg idk!!!". And with every s*%tty design that came out, guess what camera operators did? Yeah, we built a rig that was just like a camera rig that has always worked. Ah well, here's to 2030, when human bodies will evolve into something else, and we'll have to completely redesign camera ergonomics yet AGAIN. [SARCASM]
 
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davedv said:
Panasonic did develop a 13x f/2.8-4.5 servo zoom lens for the DVX200 which used a Micro 4/3 sensor, but they never released anything similar as a standalone lens.
Click to expand...
Yeah, seems odd that the would tie a good servo zoom to an outdated M43 sensor like that, but never have a standalone. Just wild.
 
davedv said:
there aren't any native Micro 4/3 ENG-style lenses
Click to expand...

I have a theory that if you match depth of field, then you will match size and weight.

The lauded ENG lenses are around f/2 and 20x. But they are 2/3", whose crop factor is 4.

The crop factor of 4/3 is 2. So at f/4, its depth of field is the same as 2/3" at f/2. My theory is that a 20x f/4 lens for 4/3 would be about the size and weight of that ENG lens.

Likewise a 135 lens with a maximum aperture of f/8 would match the depth of field of that ENG lens and likewise would be about the same size and weight for 20x zoom.

---

But people are unwilling to see past the f-stop, even though it has the same depth of field, and so an f/8 20x 135 lens would not sell well.

---

Someone may point out, f/2 will be brighter than f/8. Therefore the 2/3" lens is superior.

No, because all else being equal, the 135 sensor will be 16x as light sensitive (4 f-stops).

Going back to 4/3, all else being equal, a 4/3 sensor will be 4x as light sensitive as 2/3" (2 f-stops).
 
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I would note that an optical adapter with doubler from B4 to MFT turns 2/3" servo zooms into Micro 4/3 zooms with a 2-stop loss. There are 15x & 17x 2/3" zooms that start around a T1.6 or so, so that means roughly a T2.8 & 1/2 with a huge zoom range and wide coverage. Just a thought. Also, there are spped boosters for going both Super-35 to MFT as well as Full Frame 35 to MFT, so there's even more possibilities.
 
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