New owner, please help with 24fps

A

abeas

Well-known member
Hello. I just got my HMC150 today. So far so good. I am a little concerned about shooting 1080p/24 though. I shot some footage outside today, just walking around at 108024p. On the camera's LCD, it looked rather choppy, I was hoping it was just the LCD. I came in and log and transfer in FCP 7.0.1 and transcoded to Apple Pro Res. The file transcoded at 1920x1080 at 23.976fps. I dropped it into my timeline and let FCP change the sequence settings to match the video. It looked ok (better than LCD) in FCP. I then exported as a quicktime movie and dragged it into toast 10 to make an AVCHD disc. Well, something happened in toast to the point where only the top lines were on the TV screen, and it looked horrible (bottom of TV screen was black.) My TV is capable of displaying 24fps with no pulldown, as it is a newer Sony. I then tried exporting to blu-ray straight from final cut, and it worked fine, however the AVCHD disc created from FCP looked as choppy, unsmooth and juddery as the video did on the camera's LCD.
I didn't have much motion on the video, as I just shot the Pittsburgh skyline, but all the pans looked absolutely horrible. Am I doing something wrong? I know 24fps shouldn't look this way. Why is it so choppy on camera LCD during recording?

Thanks so much for any help!
 
was it handheld? if so were you using the OIS? did you have the OIS on panning with a tripod? what was your shutter speed?

have you ever shot 24p before?
 
I'm no expert but perhapssssssssssss it's something to do with field dominance? Set the settings on Toast to progressive? Also for it not being smoothe.. maybe it's cause your shutter was too high or something.

:bath:


edit: matt s. - posting a second after me in every thread since 2009
 
You do it all the time haha. I'll open up a thread that has no replies, and by the time I type out my response you've already answered it or something hahaha.

:bath:
 
matt s. said:
was it handheld? if so were you using the OIS? did you have the OIS on panning with a tripod? what was your shutter speed?

have you ever shot 24p before?
Click to expand...


Yes, it was handheld. I have a manfrotto 501hdv head and 351mvb legs but a friend has it for the week. I was using OIS. When it is on my tripod I will not be using OIS. The shutter speed was whatever the default was. I did not change a thing other than manual focus and iris.
Let me ask, what would be a good shutter speed for 24fps outside on a bright day, like today in Pittsburgh. Lastly, no, I have not shot 24fps before. I knew it wouldn't be as "smooth" as shooting 60i, but to me it seemed too choppy and unsmooth on the LCD screen of the camera.
 
i usually never take my shutter off 1/48. the default is 1/50 when set to off when shooting 24p. I dont know your issue really. maybe its just that you arent used to seeing 24p footage??? the handheld could have made it look worse especially if you were all over the place or zoomed to the max.

as far as your AVCHD disc burning I cant help you there as I still only deliver in SD DVD for now.
 
matt s. said:
i usually never take my shutter off 1/48. the default is 1/50 when set to off when shooting 24p. I dont know your issue really. maybe its just that you arent used to seeing 24p footage??? the handheld could have made it look worse especially if you were all over the place or zoomed to the max.

as far as your AVCHD disc burning I cant help you there as I still only deliver in SD DVD for now.
Click to expand...

Tomorrow I will go outside and shoot some video at 720p24 on a tripod. If I threw it up on my .Mac server space (after transcoding to pro res) do you think you could download it and take a look, and let me know if it looks like 24fps to you.
 
Buy Barry Green's book on the camera as there is an excellent section on shooting progressive scan.

You need to keep pans to a minimum but when you have to pan keep them very slow unless you are following a moving object. The book explains it in a lot more detail.
 
Hook up your camera with the HDMI directly to your Sony and play off the original SDHC source. If the shots looks good, then it's a problem somewhere in the transcoding steps.
 
I just shot some more footage at 720p24. To me, it doesn't look right. I am going to upload the apple pro res file to my server account. Can someone download it and take a look at it?
 
Thomas Lew said:
If you transcode at a different framerate than the original file it could cause this as well.

:bath:
Click to expand...

I don't think they are any options in FCP to transcode framerate. When I bring it up in the log and transfer menu, I just click and drag it to the queue and let FCP do its thing. It does say in the timeline 23.98 and the field dominance is none, which I believe means it's progressive.
 
How does it look before it is transcoded? Have you looked at the original files with a viewer?
 
Denwa said:
How does it look before it is transcoded? Have you looked at the original files with a viewer?
Click to expand...

Still looks off to me. Maybe I'm not used to the 24fps look. I am uploading the apple pro res file to my server now. I can upload the original MTS file as well if someone has a way to play it.
 
For the record now, maybe I shouldn't be shooting at any of these progressive modes. None of them look smooth to me. I just made an AVCHD disc of things I shot this morning at 1080 30p and it just doesn't look like what I had hoped it would. Maybe I am just so use to shooting at 60i all my life that I can't get past the "un-smooth" look of these progressive frame rates.
Maybe I'm making these discs wrong. I just transcode in FCP, drag into the time line and let FCP change the timeline settings automatically, then export a quicktime movie, drop that in to Toast 10, change field dominance to progressive (thanks Thomas....auto def doesn't work) throw in a disc and let it go. I view my AVCHD discs on a PS3, HDMI out to a Sony Bravia 1080p HDTV.
 
I would use an Easy Setup in FCP and set the project up to the same format you are shooting instead of letting FCP just change the timeline. 30p shouldnt really be jittery.
 
I tried making an AVCHD disc straight from the MTS file in toast, 1080 30p. Looked identical to the one FCP created through transcoding to Pro Res. I guess maybe it's just that these look so different from 60i my eyes can't adjust to it yet. Panning looks so smooth at 60i and it just doesn't look very good to me at 24 or 30 progressive. I tried to upload a couple files to my .mac account but the size limit is 1GB. I also ordered Barry's book, hopefully to learn a little more about shooting progressive and why mine looks bad to me.
Tomorrow I will shoot some short clips at 720p 24 and 30 and upload the MTS files. If anyone has Toast video player or VLC and could download and play them for me to verify that's how they are supposed to look, I would appreciate it. It was also ease my mind of the thought that something is wrong with the camera, which I'm sure there isn't.
 
Shoot some at 60P as well for comparison.

I'll give em a look over if I have time and the download isn't to huge.

I'll post you an exposure room link in a while for a concert shot at 1080 30P so you can check it out. I have to re-upload the video so that won't be a for a few hours. Damn ADSL slow ass upload speeds.
 
Ok. I will go outside tomorrow afternoon and shoot at 1080i60, 720p60, 720p30 and 720p24. About 1-2 minute clips with some panning and zooming. I will post you the link to download them afterwards. Can you open the MTS files or do you want me to transcode to Pro Res?
 
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