EVA1: New Master Information Thread for the EVA1

M

Mitch Gross

Veteran
After almost 3000 posts it looks like the moderators decided the original EVA1 thread had grown too enormous and unwieldy. So this will be the new thread for sharing info on the camera. That includes posts by me and others providing info as well as a good place for anyone to ask questions. Heres to the next 3000 posts.
 
Mitch, can you remind us of some of the roadmap coming forward?

Also, a few top questions/concerns from research and reading lately:

Recording of VFR / High Framerate on EVA-1 to external recorder such as Atomos Shogun Infero. Why is it not currently possible to record 120fps, 240fps, etc. to the recorder even though it supports it? Is this because it needs to output RAW? If so, will the EVA-1 be supporting this down the road in firmware so that we can record high frame rates to high bitrate ProRes?

For what items do we need to reboot the camera to change? Is it just NTSC v PAL frequency, or anything else?

Will there be a custom user menu setting (ala the GH5) + custom preset settings (ala the GH5) coming in a future firmware update?
 
filmguy123 said:
Mitch, can you remind us of some of the roadmap coming forward?

Also, a few top questions/concerns from research and reading lately:

Recording of VFR / High Framerate on EVA-1 to external recorder such as Atomos Shogun Infero. Why is it not currently possible to record 120fps, 240fps, etc. to the recorder even though it supports it? Is this because it needs to output RAW? If so, will the EVA-1 be supporting this down the road in firmware so that we can record high frame rates to high bitrate ProRes?

For what items do we need to reboot the camera to change? Is it just NTSC v PAL frequency, or anything else?

Will there be a custom user menu setting (ala the GH5) + custom preset settings (ala the GH5) coming in a future firmware update?
Click to expand...

High Frame Rates
Except for some esoteric technical cameras, all video cameras output video at standard SMPTE/IBU frame rates. That's 23.98, 24, 25, 29.97, 50, and 59.94. To shoot at a high frame rate means to record it internally and then output it at one of the above frame rates, or to output it as a RAW data file.

RAW Output
Currently announced future RAW outputs are 5.7K at 23.98, 24, 25, and 29.97; and 4K at 23.98, 24, 25, 29.97, 50, and 59.94. Other resolutions and/or frame rates have not been stated, but as this is still a future firmware update there is the possibility of other functions. Note that the VariCam LT added 2K RAW output up to 240 fps without it being in the original announced spec, and this addition was at no additional charge.

System reboot
Note that any system reboots happen automatically by the camera (no need to flip a switch) and takes under 5 seconds. Changing frame rates as well as certain sensor modes and codecs requires the reboot. The menu system asks if you wish to proceed or cancel before a reboot in case you hit a setting by accident.
 
Thank you Mitch.

So would RAW data output technically allow VFR if enabled by Panasonic, such as 1080p and 4K 36 and 48 fps modes?
 
How do the external recorders work with/see the non-standard variable framerates?

I'm assuming they are locking in a project rate and letting the camera shoot/burn in whatever is dialed in?
 
filmguy123 said:
Thank you Mitch.

So would RAW data output technically allow VFR if enabled by Panasonic, such as 1080p and 4K 36 and 48 fps modes?
Click to expand...

I would say that this would be "theoretically" true as opposed to "technically" accurate. I state this because the RAW output specs have not been published at this time other than what I posted previously.
 
NorBro said:
How do the external recorders work with/see the non-standard variable framerates?

I'm assuming they are locking in a project rate and letting the camera shoot/burn in whatever is dialed in?
Click to expand...

In video modes the recorders see whatever the video cameras put out, the same as any monitor. If I shoot 240fps with a camera set to a 60p base frequency, then the video output is 60p and the output is showing 1 of every 4 frames. This is what all cameras do.

In RAW output, things are different. The RAW data comes out as a strict data stream and does not need to adhere to a system frequency. A system frequency does need to be set otherwise the recorder doesn't know what speed you intend to play back the material. Some cameras will allow frame rate adjustments in single integers (221fps, 222fps, 223fps, etc.) while others will only allow certain benchmarks (100fps, 120fps, 200fps, 240fps). On the EVA1 internal recording the frame rates are available in single integers. I can't tell you about RAW because I don't know additional specs at this time.
 
I've used the BMs and REDs which can do any # and you'd of course set a project base...it never occurred to me how an external recorder may read everything, but it sounds the same way. Thank you!
 
Thanks Mitch, that's helpful to know. Let's hope RAW output is enabled because from what I have seen the internal codec really falls apart on the higher frame rates it looks like. RAW would give those value, as well as allow 10bit 4:2:2 VFR modes in 4K which are essential to use the 4K slow motion options professionally IMO (well, for anything but a quick filler shot).

Outside of that, I will say the user footage I have been seeing post launch is to my eye very nice looking.
 
Has anyone used the EVA1 & GH5 as A & B cam's on an interview shoot? Wondering how much CC'ing is needed to match.
 
Hey Mitch I was just watching an EVA1 review that showed 120fps and 240fps footage looking extremely soft, and it inspired me to go back to the test footage I shot and check if there was some bitrate issue. I found something very odd. I found that despite not changing codecs or bitrates (50Mbps was selected for all 2K HFR tests), the encoded video file was only 20Mbps for 240fps and 40Mbps for 120fps, while the 48fps footage I shot used the full 50Mbps. What's going on? Is this the intended behavior or is this a bug that can get fixed? I was under the impression the encoded file bitrate was determined by the system framerate and bitrate settings, so all HFR footage should show up as 50Mbps 23.98fps at playback if that codec was selected. Is there actually a bitrate ceiling implemented that forces higher framerates to use lower bitrates to fit within an encoding bitrate limit? This would explain a lot of the reports I'm seeing of problematic 120fps and 240fps footage.
 
nyvz said:
Hey Mitch I was just watching an EVA1 review that showed 120fps and 240fps footage looking extremely soft, and it inspired me to go back to the test footage I shot and check if there was some bitrate issue. I found something very odd. I found that despite not changing codecs or bitrates (50Mbps was selected for all 2K HFR tests), the encoded video file was only 20Mbps for 240fps and 40Mbps for 120fps, while the 48fps footage I shot used the full 50Mbps. What's going on? Is this the intended behavior or is this a bug that can get fixed? I was under the impression the encoded file bitrate was determined by the system framerate and bitrate settings, so all HFR footage should show up as 50Mbps 23.98fps at playback if that codec was selected. Is there actually a bitrate ceiling implemented that forces higher framerates to use lower bitrates to fit within an encoding bitrate limit? This would explain a lot of the reports I'm seeing of problematic 120fps and 240fps footage.
Click to expand...

My guess would be that since the camera is recording continuously, if you're shooting at 240fps for 23.98 playback, then you're thus actually recording 10x data rate compared to playback. So if it plays back at 20 mbps, that means it was going onto the card at 200 mbps. If you want a higher playback bitrate, take a look at the math and think about what the camera circuits (and your sd card) can reasonably handle.

So my question for Mitch is -- when the future firmware enables the higher bitrate recording, will HFR recording bitrates also have the option of increasing as well? Or is this something where there will be a HFR RAW output that can be recorded at some insane bitrate externally?
 
Also I saw some odd bug in the Open Iris FA function in the demo camera at B&H today with a Zeiss CP lens attached... The camera seemed to be stuck in some dark mode despite all the settings being normal (ND, iris, shutter, ISO). I managed to get a normal looking image only by pressing a button that turned out to be mapped to Open Iris FA, but it would only fix it for a few seconds, which I understand to be the correct functioning of OPEN IRIS FA. Of course restarting the camera seemed to get the image back to normal but I wonder what got it stuck in a super dark mode in the first place.

Also what's the deal with side grips? So the wiggle and clicking is deemed normal intended behavior?

Also I had some tail lights and red to better test primary color highlights better, and was disappointed in how the scene file gamma curves compared to Vlog->V709. I don't suppose there is any way to get the right kind of desaturation of bright reds and other primaries with scene files is there? Would hate to think shooting baked looks means compromising highlights... If I want that I'll just stick with my much less expensive FS5. I believe the FS7 and C200/300 have ways around such highlight issues.
 
morgan_moore said:
Mitch ref twitter I could not find a pic of the bottom of the camera.

Could you post a specific link please.

S
Click to expand...
Out of town for a US holiday right now but will do soon. Pretty sure there’s a 1/4”x20 and a 3/8”x16 with a locator socket in between, all at standard distances.
 
OnSet said:
My guess would be that since the camera is recording continuously, if you're shooting at 240fps for 23.98 playback, then you're thus actually recording 10x data rate compared to playback. So if it plays back at 20 mbps, that means it was going onto the card at 200 mbps. If you want a higher playback bitrate, take a look at the math and think about what the camera circuits (and your sd card) can reasonably handle.

So my question for Mitch is -- when the future firmware enables the higher bitrate recording, will HFR recording bitrates also have the option of increasing as well? Or is this something where there will be a HFR RAW output that can be recorded at some insane bitrate externally?
Click to expand...
I’ll need to ask about the bit rates when recording VFR. No high frame rate RAW output has been announced at this time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top