New fixtures: SoftPanels

Did anyone else get a chance to check these out at NAB? I'm pretty impressed by what see as a very functional light that solves several meat & potatoes basic lighting issues for me.

They're very good color (a CRI 95 claim) and are build quite robust. Color-adjustable from 2700K-6500K with dimming and can be battery powered. But that's just basic stats that compare to other lamps out there. I like that they have an actual color meter built directly into the unit, so when you set it to 5500K it really is at 5500K, as opposed to the theoretical settings of various lights out there that seem to be wildly off. This color meter can also be used to match ambient light, so that solves a lot of location problems plus mixing the SoftPanel with other fixtures. And it has an interesting warming function that is meant to enriched skin tone. I have to play with this a bit, but the manufacturer says that it's more than just a color temp offset and instead offers some form of sliding scale based on the ambient light color temperature so that the effect would match from scene to scene.

The biggest problem I always had with LED array fxtures was that they never had the proper footprint for what I wanted out of them. They were not small enough to be a point source, but they also weren't large enough to be a larger soft source. Diffusion on a 1x1 never really did it for me, as the light still came off as harsh and directional. I'm used to lighting my subjects with a large soft source like a Chimera softball to get nice wrap around the face and gentle falloff. The problems with such a light in a softball is heat on talent, bulkiness to transport, setup time and physical depth of the fixture. Pretty much all clients will no longer put up with hot lights anymore. Traveling with a decent sized fixture and a big Chimera bag is a pain that requires a bigger truck, bigger stands, etc. And far too often the three or four feet of physical depth required by such a light just won't work in a practical space.

So I'm looking at these SoftPanels that are 1x2', 2x3' and 3x4', only need a few inches for depth clearance and put out no heat. A 3x4' unit defintely if something that requires a vehicle to transport but would work very well with most kits considering how often I'm carrying 4x4 flags or even a 4x4 headboard for bounces. But I can really see myself using a 2x3' as a close key for interviews. Because there's no heat I could get in close and the size is then big enough to give me nice wrap on the face. I think a 2x3' fixture is something I can deal with in a personal kit and it comes with a honeycomb grid as well as some kind of softbag case.

There's a Kickstarter that still has a week to go and there's a hefty discount, but it's a fully funded project. The guys behind it are the ones who started LitePanels and they say that they'll start delivering in May, so he company must already be up and running and this is a way to get them going with a bang.

I'm pretty tempted. Anyone else looking at these fixtures?
 
I thought they looked pretty decent, although I'm slightly cautious about the claims for the colour meter. If they only have cool and warm LEDs in them, there's a limit to the amount of correction that's physically possible, no matter how accurately it can measure its own output.

(I asked whether they had just cool and warm LEDs, or whether there's any RGB correction capability, which of course raises problems all on its own, but the answer was, via a lot of dissembling, that they don't - if this is not the case my conclusions will of course differ).

On this basis it seems like a reasonable deal but I'm not sure exactly how much value the inbuilt metering has.

P
 
I'm really interested in the 2x3 300w panel. If I can swing it I'm looking to back them before it ends. They appear similar to the Kino Celebs at a fraction of the cost and possibly more colour accurate.

Like you mentioned this light solves a lot of my current issues with my LED lighting options.
 
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When do you guys get the "no more hot lights" mandate? I'm still usin' em. NOt often, but I hardly use lights often at all. If kinos/LEDs etc. aren't specifically requested I bring the ones I own which are your typical softbox/fresnels kit. Still work guys occasionally who do the same. Heck, even HMIs get pretty hot so if there are a few of those in the room you still have the same heat issue.
 
It was probably eight years ago that I was setting up for an interview in a hotel room when my producer walked in and casually commented, "Oh, still using those hot lights I see." I knew then that if I wanted to keep getting hired for certain jobs I would need to start shifting tools.

I could tell other stories of talent complaining about heat in their faces and the like. In the end the message was clear: no more hot lights, especially for shoots like location interviews and other documentary-style work.
 
interesting. Keeping my fingers crossed it doesn't happen to me then, (before I'm ready to replace them of my own free will---several purchases take precedent over lighting right now).
 
I thought they looked pretty decent, although I'm slightly cautious about the claims for the colour meter. If they only have cool and warm LEDs in them, there's a limit to the amount of correction that's physically possible, no matter how accurately it can measure its own output.

(I asked whether they had just cool and warm LEDs, or whether there's any RGB correction capability, which of course raises problems all on its own, but the answer was, via a lot of dissembling, that they don't - if this is not the case my conclusions will of course differ).

On this basis it seems like a reasonable deal but I'm not sure exactly how much value the inbuilt metering has.

P

Can you elaborate on "disassembling"? That sentence makes it sound like someone took apart the light to answer your question. (That would be very strange)

The appeal in bi-color lights is matching other lighting, typically ambient light that you can't easily control. The built in the meter is for that, it's not for correcting the color spectrum of its own output. All that CTO and CTB? This replaces that, not the minus green, etc.

I'm guessing the diodes inside the panel are similar if not the same to LitePanels.

The most interesting part of this story is the relationship between Kevin Baxter, Fred Holmes, and LitePanels. Kevin and Fred are listed on the patents, so I figure they must have solid relationships in China. The part I don't get is it's direct competition to LitePanels Astra Soft. What happened between Kevin, Fred, and LitePanels? Normally you can't leave a company to start your own competing company unless circumstances allow... Holding the patents makes for good circumstances.

What strikes me the most about the kickstarter campaign is that they only wanted to raise $30,000(?) I guess the beauty of this business model is reaching the minimum units for a run (with other peoples' money).

I'd rather not see gimmicky features but I'm hoping they designed this light to perform the same if any of the "candy" fails... Be it screen, skin-enhance, or the color meter... and that's why I'm in for two lights myself, because the light quality HAS to be good, based on who is doing it... and if you compare the raw specs to anything else out there, it seems like a good value.
 
Good points, MattinSTL. I agree that the features are slightly gimmicky (skin enhance presumably means that it shifts slightly warmer, which can be achieved by turning the color dial). And matching the ambience via meter would be far more useful if it had green/magenta correction as well, since the trickier environments to match to tend to involve fluorescents etc. But it seems like a decent product at a decent price. I'm particularly interested in the 3x4 unit.
 
Charles... that's exactly what the skin-enhance does. The claim however, is that it's an exact enhance all the time, rather than you judging it with your eye. My guess is they could have called it the 81b button. I'm not sure how much you, or others, are into LED technology, but I'm basically obsessed with it.

One of my only concerns with any nearly sealed box, is the rating of 60,000 hours (or whatever). In the tech papers that no company is going to show you, for the actual diodes, brightness is measured as "initial lumens". What nobody tells you is that by the time the LEDs have 10,000 hours on them (+/- depending on HEAT control)... they may be only 1/2 as bright. After many years have passed, people are going to compare their old panels with whatever we have at that time, and say, "man, remember when we thought these were bright?", just like people are doing with their 10 year old original LP1x1s now, but those LP1x1s WERE brighter when you got them, than they are now.

Fixtures may feel cool, but that statement is silly. LEDs don't run cool... they run red-hot like tungsten, but the point source of that heat is tiny, so way less overall heat to provide convection/radiation. It's like touching someone's front door and saying the house runs cool, meanwhile go in and lay your hand on the stove set on high.

I'm really excited to give these lights a try. If they kick-ass for 10,000 hours that will most likely have them way paid for at that point. I'm still a sound guy, but more and more frequently I'm having out of town companies hiring me on, and renting lights downtown. I never thought twice about it until they asked me to pick up and drop off those lights. I asked the local rental house if I could pick them up a day early (right before they closed) if they weren't already rented (lot of driving involved between different gigs and 3 days)... and they said, "sure... $184 for the extra day"... So I thought, "well this will never happen again"... and here I am, back to being obsessed with location lighting, so I can offer it to traveling DPs.

I'm going to pose the question on the Kickstarter page about the reliability of the light through only the hardware, if any/all of the candy-bits fail.

I wish I could engage Kevin in a conversation about his relationship with LitePanels, and this new venture. LitePanels gave everyone headaches when they wanted to also get into location LED... and obviously there's been a tsunami of competition since. That didn't seem so odd to me, but a new company pulled from the roots of LitePanels does. I'd also like to ask the guy why he's gone in such a dramatically different direction... r.e. the "candy". LitePanels is all about no-frills, here's the light and it's ugly dials... like it or not. Many people feel the Astras are a step backward in construction, but the original panels were still plastic, they only LOOK like they were metal. As long as the plastic is polycarbonate, I don't mind plastic.

The SoftPanels appear mostly metal. The 1x2 is over 16lbs, and the 2x3 is over 30lbs. That 2x3 is getting to a weight that's something fairly serious to manage. A c-stand and 2 bags for sure IMO.

I recently got an Astra Soft, and I guess a more experienced lighting guy would say I'm nuts, but the projected softness seems to go beyond a normal 1x1 softbox. I'd probably have to get a waveform monitor on the image to see what's really happening, but it seems to project a huge wall of light. A regular Astra is practically a spot, by comparison. This is why I'm thinking (hoping) that the 1x2 would be plenty to get a big, flattering "wrap of light"... while also hopefully having enough punch to compete with the sun in close range (like 5'). I may be kidding myself on that.
 
The 3x4 has a lot of appeal to me too. It'd be like having a 4x4 in front of something, but with a footprint only a couple of inches deep, instead of the meter or so you'd need at a minimum, to fire a light into a 4x4 and fill the frame - fewer stands, less grip, less clutter, and much more easily controlled.

Lots of appeal in that concept. Not something I'd rush out and pre-order though. I think with all LED tech these days you need to wait and see how they actually perform - because way too many of them have serious colour issues.
 
The 3x4 has a lot of appeal to me too. It'd be like having a 4x4 in front of something, but with a footprint only a couple of inches deep, instead of the meter or so you'd need at a minimum, to fire a light into a 4x4 and fill the frame - fewer stands, less grip, less clutter, and much more easily controlled.

Lots of appeal in that concept. Not something I'd rush out and pre-order though. I think with all LED tech these days you need to wait and see how they actually perform - because way too many of them have serious colour issues.

I agree we're taking a risk by being early-adopters, but if the two guys who started LitePanels can't get the color right... in a light that includes it's own color-meter... well that would be pretty bad.
 
Charles... that's exactly what the skin-enhance does. The claim however, is that it's an exact enhance all the time, rather than you judging it with your eye.

Every subject has a different skin tone, so there is no such thing as an "exact" skin enhance. Pale white skin generally does fine with straight color temp warming, but some skin tones have a bit of green to them, others may be ruddy etc. It's OK, it's kind of like the green box mode on still cameras. Fine for run and gun, but hopefully if one is shooting a portrait one makes more specific choices.

Grug, yes the replacement of a 4x4 frame and all of the associated grip gear is a dream. I tried out the Quantum 120 on a pilot recently and it was so powerful and fast to move around, albeit heavy.
 
I see the skin/auto colour features as something to be used together and not when taking the time to dial it in manually. The idea for my work to be able to pop a 2x3 close to talent auto match the ambient with one button and then slightly warm talent with another could be a massive time saver over current setups I use. Of course it won't work for every skin type or location but if I can save time on the majority of my work that is huge.

Anytime I am in full control of all lighting in a room and have the time I would still dial creative choices manually but in many situations the quicker I can match ambient sources be it practicals I can't swap/shutoff or warmer morning sunlight coming in the window.

As I understand it these lights also don't vary in ourput across the colour temp range which I always found to be a pain in the ass with current bi colour LED.

For someone in my area of our market owning a large Kino Celeb or the Quantum 120 isn't in my budget. These Softpanels at the introduction price is a great light for the money. A 300w LED in a 2x3 form factor is ideal for my needs and would get used on every interview I shoot.
 
I'm with Grug on this. Certainly interested, but taking a wait & see approach now. Also think a bit gimmicky...and also heavy (if the 2x3 is over 30lbs???)

30lbs is similar to comparable lights. A kino Celeb 4x1 is 26lbs and I personally hate the lollypop mount on it. The kino is also 198w instead of 300w.

The only appeal of taking the risk is saving a bunch of money over the costs when fully released. Its a risk but given the pedigree of the creators I don't doubt the quality of the product even if you never use the auto colour or skin enhance.
 
I guess you are right about the weight. My Lowel Prime LED 200's (first LED's I bought) probably weigh that much and don't put out near the lumens - and are daylight only. But I'm not sure about using watts to determine how bright they are...
 
Obviously there is more than watts to determine brightness but given similar beam angle, diffusion/lensing watts will get you in the ballpark.
 
Every subject has a different skin tone, so there is no such thing as an "exact" skin enhance. Pale white skin generally does fine with straight color temp warming, but some skin tones have a bit of green to them, others may be ruddy etc. It's OK, it's kind of like the green box mode on still cameras. Fine for run and gun, but hopefully if one is shooting a portrait one makes more specific choices.

When I said "exact warming" I meant that regardless of what the color temp the light is emitting... a button push can still add an 81b worth of warming to 3200K or 5600K... but trying to visualize that yourself with a dial (and your eyes) may be challenging if the effect is subtle. I didn't mean to imply the light can make artistic decisions.

I have an Astra Soft... and trying to bump just a SLIGHT amount of warming is hard, whether it's with the dial or the app through Bluetooth (the app is easier as it gives a digital read-out)... but the other point the SoftPanel guys are making is that other lights which display the color in Kelvin may be off by as much as 1000K, so you never really know what you've got, and have to go with your eyes + white balance... then try your best to match the other lights, or just set everything visually. Ultimately, that's what it all comes down to anyway. One of the things I love about picture over sound is nobody argues with WYSIWYG... but having optional tools towards setting up the lighting could be valuable for some... and as long as those tools are optional... and the rest of the light performs like any other light, I'm not bothered by the gimmicks.
 
That is pretty intriguing.

My skin solutions to date have been to keep an 82A cooling filter handy and WB through that (a 1/8 CTB would be similar) which pops things a bit warm when needed. I also have a 4x4 CC10m resin filter from my film days that I can pop in if I feel I want a little more pink (but that's a global hit vs using a filter only for white balancing).

I've gotten much more interested lately in using color to differentiate the subject from the BG if I feel there's not enough of that 3D "pop" (usually cooling the BG down or pushing it warmer), so a tool like skin enhance on my key could be handy as well. For now it's generally a very mild gel on the key or the BG; if it's on the key I WB again.
 
Their Kickstarter is at $158,000 pretty amazing how far people will go to save a couple hundies. I guess their team is really selling this. If craft camera had a team like this maybe I would plop my money down for one blind too.
 
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