New fixtures: SoftPanels

I look at the autocolor and then the skin enhancement as tools for doc-style or one man band type work. If I have a bit of time or more than a single utility guy to help then I probably wouldn't bother with them, but that's not what a lot of shoot are these days. Sometimes you get 15 minutes to set up and go, and for that I can see using these tools. The skin enhancement is a consistent relative shift, and the way I understand it is that the color meter takes a reading of the ambient light and then adds the appropriate shift for skin enhancement. That way no matter what lighting conditions you face the effect of the skin enhancement will appear consistent. I'm not saying that it is therefore the best look for all skin tones or that it is even desirable in all shooting situations, but at least that's how the technology is devised.

As a "gimmick" I at least appreciate that these are features that one must choose to use, as opposed to the crap like localized dimming and smooth motion flow on most TVs that I have to fight just to figure out how to turn off. Just having a color meter built in that tells me what the light is actually outputting v some generic setting that you hope is somewhere close to correct is quite welcome. I believe Hive is planning to add something similar to its plasma lights, but it will just be a color meter readout while you still adjust the color manually.

In the end what I really like is that it is a big flat soft fixture in the same sizes as my favorite soft boxes. But there's no heat, no fussing around setting it up, and it doesn't take up a huge footprint on location. I can take the 2x3' and instantly substitute it for a BJ with a small Chimera. Because there's no heat I can even bring it in closer to the subject, getting the wrap of a medium Chimera. Sold. If I want that full medium Chimera size I can go to the 3x4' model. Done.

This is essentially a tool that allows me to light the way I like to light already, but let's me do it with less heat, adjustable color, when I don't have as much crew/time, and on batteries if necessary. That's what I like about it.
 
StrobelPhotography said:
Their Kickstarter is at $158,000 pretty amazing how far people will go to save a couple hundies. I guess their team is really selling this. If craft camera had a team like this maybe I would plop my money down for one blind too.
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I've been into LED technology since about 2004 or so... and I don't think most backers are trying to save a couple hundred bucks. I think most people want the light asap.

With the new competition of similar designs around this same price, but 1/2 the size (and presumably half the output)... and without the meter... It makes this seem like a bargain. If the price goes up after release, we're talking at least $300 up on the 1x2 and $500-600 on the 2x3... and of course once they're up and going they can charge whatever they want. If these compete with lights that are 2x the money why wouldn't they MSRP at 75% or more, (especially if the color meter actually works)?

The 2 panels I've been watching are the F&V and Ikan, but again, they're both in this price range at 1x1. This gives me the impression that color accurate LED is still going to be expensive for a while. I keep expecting panels to drop a lot, but anything with the good diodes is holding its price-point. If the Ikan Lyra was even $599 I'd likely not be interested in this project.

Although I gotta' say, what if the color meter isn't a gimmick? What if it actually works? Light meters with color temp are really expensive. Most of them are getting to the price of this 1x2 light!

Also, I don't think their team is selling this... I think WE are. A guy from YouTube told me about these in the comments section of the DSLR Film Noob channel, under an NAB light video... Then I did some easy research and we began discussing specs and WHO these guys are... It took them 3 weeks to hit $100K (where I jumped in) and now less than a week later it's up 60%. Then again... I guess by "their team" you mean the owners? If so... then yes, at least for me, that's exactly what's selling it. I expect a LitePanels performance for less than half the cost.

When you click "bio" on the Kickstarter page it says "Fred Holmes"... That concerned me a bit because I figured it would say Kevin Baxter or at least Ryan Avery... so I googled again and see Fred listed right with Kevin on the original LitePanels patents. So yes... if that's the team selling... I expect this to go pretty smoothly. If this exact light was being offered by an unknown, I'd probably wait it out.

Eric Coughlin said:
What is the beam angle of these lights?
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With these built-in diffused panels I would assume about 130 degrees. Wide, with a slightly hotter center.

LitePanels Astra Soft specs state 46 degrees, same as the other Astras, but that is clearly an oversight. I can put a Soft next to a standard Astra and the beam angles aren't remotely close, and I imagine LitePanels isn't doing themselves any favors by stating 46 degree angle, with the low lumens specs (compared to the non-diffused Astras).
 
MattinSTL said:
The 2 panels I've been watching are the F&V and Ikan, but again, they're both in this price range at 1x1. This gives me the impression that color accurate LED is still going to be expensive for a while. I keep expecting panels to drop a lot, but anything with the good diodes is holding its price-point. If the Ikan Lyra was even $599 I'd likely not be interested in this project.
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Interesting. Just now seeing the Ikan. It's only $799 at BH. Has any color or brightness information been released?
 
traviswears said:
Interesting. Just now seeing the Ikan. It's only $799 at BH. Has any color or brightness information been released?
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I haven't been able to find any specs on the ikan. The $799 is interesting. Still too much in lieu of these other options, but I was expecting $900-1K. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdBMvqAohJM

The F&V option is $989, but you can get that now with an included case and softbox... and F&V is a DVXuser Sponsor, which is cool. http://www.ultrasoftlight.com/

My prediction is that the F&V will be brighter, and with a better TLCI than the ikan light (considering the F&V is already topping the TLCI standard). The ikan is pretty in pictures, but the metal construction of the F&V... plus the guaranteed TLCI... and the currently included accessories, makes it the winner if you want to order a 1x1 panel from a proven source today.

I also admire F&V for providing extensive specs on their site. I just discovered the dedicated page to this site just now. They pretty much lay out everything... which is very cool. To compare the UltraColor to an Astra Soft... the TLCI of the F&V is almost as high as it can possibly be. The Astra is close however, but Timur's comparison showed a greenish tinge to the Astra that I found disturbing. I have to wonder if that was a new Astra or one of the early models, as the one I bought has a revision number on the box. I can't imagine LitePanels would commit to a particular bin of diodes since 2014. If the commodity product evolved, they'd certainly incorporate the latest generation of it.

Anyway, since LitePanels quotes specs at 5, 10, and 15'... and almost everyone else quotes at 1, 2, 3 meters. I did my comparisons by putting LitePanels at a slight disadvantage in order to justify the higher cost. An Astra Soft at 10' is 27fc and 295 lux in daylight, and 22fc and 240 lux in tungsten. The UltraColor is 19fc and 205 lux in daylight (at 9'... so 1' closer) and 17fc and 178 lux in tungsten (again, 1' closer, which is significant as light falls off exponentially due to the inverse square law).

If somebody says the inverse square law doesn't matter and gives the 1' advantage back to the Astra at 5' instead of 6'... then the Astra has over double the output... but again, there's a significant difference in 5' vs. 6'... BUT... now you see why I bit the bullet on an Astra. (Gambling that the greenish tinge has been addressed) I'm sharing my OCD comparison of these lights because I still think the highest output is going to require more LEDs and/or a bigger panel. There's no free lunch and that's why LitePanels has a fan. These other 1x1s without a fan either have access to diodes that LitePanels doesn't (unlikely) or for a given size, they must be putting out less light to manage heat on the board. So... bigger is better if you want the most output, because LEDs only FEEL cool on the shell, making a lot of light means a lot of heat on the board inside.


The reason I'm onboard with the SoftPanel is I do believe that diodes are a commodity product and even with the 1x2 you're getting double the juice... of course this makes me question the 100w spec, because did they get the latest bin of CREE or what? How do they get double the lumens out of the same watts? This would concern me, but I figure Kevin MUST have relationships in China that have most likely allowed him to source the same or similar diodes that go into LitePanels... and his prototypes look mostly cool (although not as polished as the Ikan or LitePanels). The other reason I'm onboard is I think all these panels are probably operating in about the same league per watt + number of diodes inside... and so far one or both of those numbers is a reasonable indicator of what you can expect to come out of the light (as far as lighting power anyway).

I would love to know who of you reading this thread got onboard. The "goal" on the Kickstarter page has gone up exponentially in the last 3 days.
 
The problem with the F&V 1x1 soft is that 90w in a soft light isn't very powerful. The larger 180w model sounds interesting but looks to be available in june with an unknown price.

I'm almost onboard with the kickstarter. It will probably be a last min purchase if I do pull the trigger.
 
FrameFarmMedia said:
The problem with the F&V 1x1 soft is that 90w in a soft light isn't very powerful. The larger 180w model sounds interesting but looks to be available in june with an unknown price.

I'm almost onboard with the kickstarter. It will probably be a last min purchase if I do pull the trigger.
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I think this depends on what you're doing with it. On relative terms I have to agree (relative to non-diffused light) but for comparison, the Astra Soft is 110w... and it's almost the same brightness as a Diva 401 w/o the Flozier. (Astra in daylight is 27fc at 10' and Diva is 28fc at 10')

So the 90w F&V is still going to come in right between a Diva 201 and 401... and I'm sure you've seen a few of those around. :-)

http://www.kinoflo.com/PDF/News/Literature PDF/Kino Flo Catalog 2012/Diva-Lite.pdf

http://www.ultrasoftlight.com/
 
Yesterday I asked Kevin Baxter on their Kick Starter Page about the beam angle: He wrote "As SoftPanels are "true" Soft lights [HD Friendly] the beam angle is closer to 160 degrees - we include a 60 degree grid." James
 
Is anyone making 4x4 flexible bi-colour LED panels yet? One that you could just roll up for storage? And attach to 1" tubing which you could then mount your diffusion of choice to? (Something like the system west out has put together?

That's what I'd like to see - the whole thing would be a fraction of the weight of these rigid fixtures, and you could just tape it to walls or ceilings when needed.
 
I appreciate the link but that's a "less than vanilla" review. That writer... *ugh* Heavy compared to what? Any other 1x2? Nope... Same. Twice the weight of a 1x1, which is half the size? Also, he never says "these are the guys who started LitePanels, the most recognized name in LED lighting for the entire video and film industry"... Which is a pretty important part of the story.

He also says, "The 1x2ft is listed at $1199 US and the first of the three models is expected to start shipping in around 5 weeks time. The lights were originally launched on Kickstarter and are still available for the next few days to early backers for a discount."

Dude... the $1199 IS the discount. $1199 isn't going to be the MSRP. Right now there's an additional discount, but based on the statements of the KickStarter page, the actual price once the lights start delivering will be $1500 if you don't buy-in to the Kickstarter.
 
I didn't even read the article. I posted for the video which one of few samples where we see the light in action outside of the kickstarter video.
 
It's nice to see more of the light, so yes, thank you for posting the video. My critique wasn't directed at you, but more of a general statement. I see reviews all the time where they leave out (or incorrectly state) critical information.

In all the videos for any of the new lights, the thing that surprises me is nobody just points the thing at a wall... with the camera holding the same settings of the interview, and then just shows us what the light can do. I wanted to see that 2x3 BLAST UP the wall to 100 IRE... If you're going to talk about the tremendous output... SHOW ME the tremendous output. This goes for all of 'em... The ikan video... F&V... etc. I feel like the money-shot in all these videos has been left out. The reason you keep the camera at the same settings is so the viewer can see relative power over established lighting. Separate clips of how powerful a light is... annoy me, because you can set up a camera to make anything look impressive, that's why you need to show the contrast in real time (and/or give the settings).

I hope in the production run they clean up those buttons... They look fragile and ill-fitting.

Okay... rant over. Now aside from that... Is that 2x3 pretty or what? Man, that's a big light. I didn't visualize how big 2x3 is until seeing it behind people.
 
MattinSTL said:
Is that 2x3 pretty or what? Man, that's a big light. I didn't visualize how big 2x3 is until seeing it behind people.
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It looks like the perfect size for a keylight with no extra grip or diffusion. Because its so soft and 300w I imagine when fighting bright sunlight you can move it right close to the subject and it will look great (provided you don't need a wide)
 
I am interested in the Softpanesl and considering the 3x4 (which for me is a more likely contender for "perfect size for a keylight"...although that definition varies project by project; at the moment that's an 8x8 booklight). For those interested in a 2x3 panel and concerned about weight, maybe look at the Litemat 4, which is roughly that size and weighs only 6 lbs. It will have less output, but there is always a tradeoff. I use a variety of Litemats on a daily basis, they are quick and easy to rig.
 
Charles how do you find the tungsten quality with those. I had come across those previous and the TLCI of 89 on tungsten worried me but I hadn't seen any real world skin samples with it as a key on skin. I saw some set photos with it being used for ambient and background light.
 
The Literibbon PRO series is 95 CRI in both daylight and tungsten mode. Have been using for the past few years on faces with no issues. The older version (now marketed as ECO) was much less accurate.
 
MattinSTL said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpxVPz_qDQI#t=12

I just watched this... impressive.
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In the end, color response of a light is its most important parameter. I'm most impressed by the 3200K performance and the overall color curve, with minimal green spike and excellent response in the reds. That of course is where skin tones lie, and it is usually where these sources fall short. No plastic skin here.

I'd like to see this same sort of comparison with a large quartz halogen light w/Chimera added to the mix. Add 1/2 CTB and full CTB for the different color temps. That's where you separate the posers. I think the SoftPanels would do quite admirably there.
 
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That colour looks spectacular. I'm on the fence between the Softpanel 2x3 and the LiteMat 4. Both are great larger than 1x1 soft lights. The litemat is much easier to rig because of its light weight but might not have the same colour accuracy and 120w less power. Both are the same price for a kit with grid and diffusion panels.

The clock is ticking on the kickstarter and with the price discounts over final retail the pressure is on. My only concern with the Litemat 4 is the power output when sufficiently softened with the supplied grid cloth.
 
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