FS7: New firmware

Duke M. said:
A lot of whining but I don't know if it's justified. True 4k promised and delivered. Magenta tint fix promised and my initial brief test didn't show magenta. I'll test more. Four audio channels promised and delivered.

The shutter angle, meh. There are more fraction settings than angle settings anyway and its not an issue using fraction settings... so why are you using angles?

It may not be perfect, but hey none of us are perfect either. I'm counting it as a win. Especially as further updates are expected.
Click to expand...

The shutter-bug is a real issue. It's so easy to forget to check shutter angle when you jump between different recording formats and I've managed to do it at least a couple of times so far, resulting in clips shot with a 300 degree shutter instead of the normal 180 degree shutter, despite me knowing about it and constantly checking. It's just a bug that shouldn't be there.
 
Duke M. said:
A lot of whining but I don't know if it's justified. True 4k promised and delivered. Magenta tint fix promised and my initial brief test didn't show magenta. I'll test more. Four audio channels promised and delivered.

The shutter angle, meh. There are more fraction settings than angle settings anyway and its not an issue using fraction settings... so why are you using angles?

It may not be perfect, but hey none of us are perfect either. I'm counting it as a win. Especially as further updates are expected.
Click to expand...

The whole point of using shutter angle is that when you change from 24,30,60,120 etc fps that you don't have to go and adjust the shutter. One less thing to do after the camera changes modes which can be impotent when in a rush. By not keeping the angle constant Sony included a feature and then made it useless. Having it set to shutter angle was always just one less thing to worry about.

I've been hearing reports that dialing your Kelvin WB still has a magenta shift to it. Dialing in WB with Kelvin was always something I liked to do on the C300 and was disappointed it didn't function well on the FS7 as its a feature on much much lower end cameras.

Once my bats are charged up I'll update the FW and do my own tests.
 
FrameFarmMedia said:
The whole point of using shutter angle is that when you change from 24,30,60,120 etc fps that you don't have to go and adjust the shutter. One less thing to do after the camera changes modes which can be impotent when in a rush. By not keeping the angle constant Sony included a feature and then made it useless. Having it set to shutter angle was always just one less thing to worry about.

I've been hearing reports that dialing your Kelvin WB still has a magenta shift to it. Dialing in WB with Kelvin was always something I liked to do on the C300 and was disappointed it didn't function well on the FS7 as its a feature on much much lower end cameras.

Once my bats are charged up I'll update the FW and do my own tests.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Why is the shutter angle adjustment even there if it does not work the way it is supposed to?
 
You can look to the Firmware 2.00 in many ways.

++
They delivered 4k, 4 audio channels and likely ProRes support for the additional back.
Some of the magenta cast issues are solved (are they really?)
Nice!

- -
They did not respond to 5 month of collecting ideas from all over the world.
Iris dial, LUTs + WFM, NR in cineEI, WB control, shutter angle issue
But they promised 2k center scan mode as a "future update" feature, which
they did not implement either. Neither did they respond to any of these
ideas in any form.

What's the idea of a user forum, when they release the firmware first without even mentioning it there?
Why didn't they respond to any of the numerous ideas of the users?
At least they could have communicated that they still work on the firmware or some of the issues.

Sorry, but at least for me, that is exactly what I expected in a worst case scenario from Sony
based on my personal experience in the past.

Sorry to be that angry here.
Will return to factual discussion with the next firmware update... ;)
 
FYI:

I can't get the Video Signal Monitor to show up, when I choose 4k as recording format.
It still works in QHD, but doesn't obviously do in 4k.

It might be just me... any idea?
 
I start shooting a feature in two weeks....may elect to leave well enough alone, when the camera is reasonably reliable. The only thing the new firmware offered was true 4K, which means little to me except for the slightly wider aspect ratio being closer to what I need.
 
Perhaps a new thread is required on the Sony forum to list the bugs still outstanding and new bugs introduced with new features.
 
We must look like a herd of sheep to Sony. The truth is that it really is us, users who allow such situation. We allow Sony to treat us this way by being patient, trusting that the issues will be resolved, participating in forums, etc, and actually being polite. It would be a different story if Sony service started receiving cameras from customers who would send them for repair on the basis of the camera not working as intended. Simple as that, does not work properly and as advertised. This is not only about Sony but about most manufacturers.
 
broughtonfilm said:
Exactly. Why is the shutter angle adjustment even there if it does not work the way it is supposed to?
Click to expand...
It was even worse on the FS700. You could set it to shutter angle, but the angle was *ALWAYS* calculated relative to 24fps. ALWAYS. That means that even when you were shooting 240fps, you wouldn't use 180-degree, in fact it wasn't even an option to go to up to 180 degrees. So since you'd want 1/480 or 1/500 as the shutter speed, and since the angle was *always* relative to 24fps, the angle would be about 17 degrees (24fps 1/500 = a 17º shutter angle). So if you used shutter angle on the FS700, you'd use 180º in 24fps and 17º in 240fps, which makes absolutely no sense.
 
Just because it is slightly less nonsensical does not make it right. In a way it is worse because FS7 makes an unpredictable change in shutter angle setting. Some report 300 degree but some 216 degree. Yes, unfortunately now the unpredictability is predictable.
 
I'll post this on the Sony board as well, but I think it is a good idea to do an ALL RESET after firmware update even if the updater itself is "supposed" to do a reset. In fact, I reset twice just to make certain something wasn't hanging around. Also, trash and rebuild all your ALL FILES

Ned Soltz
 
Magenta was indeed fixed only when dialing into the Preset White slot. Sony apparently assumes A&B will be carded. I'd say they just overlooked this one. But at least there's a working manual kelvin option now.

I do miss the C300, one two button presses, dial in, done.
 
How on Earth is it even remotely possible to overlook it? I don't even use custom mode so this doesn't affect me directly but that's practically the biggest single complaint about the thing.

If this is true then it's really not good enough and it really suggests that if this isn't all fixed in one firmware then the likelihood of the heavy banding in shadows in raw is never ever going to get fixed.
 
At some point you have to accept the fact that YOU didn't design the camera and so not everything is going to work the way YOU want it to be. That is not a flaw of the camera or something that needs to be fixed. If you look closely, the camera has a Sony badge on it. Not Arri, not Canon, and not Panasonic. Some people don't like the way Sony does some things so they choiose to fight against it and complain. But that gets you nowhere. It is better to be flexible and learn to use the camera as it was intended by the people that built it -- and the way that long-time Sony users expect it to function. I bought a Sony camera and I expect it to function like a Sony camera. In the long run you will be happier and you'll get better results if you accept it for what it is. Whether the way the "other guys" did it is better or not is immaterial because the FS7 isn't one of their cameras. With that said, the white balance controls on the FS7 now function exactly like all the other high-end Sony cameras I have used in the past. It works great, and so it's nothing that is going to be "fixed" just because someone doesn't like it. And it wasn't "overlooked" by anybody at Sony.
I've got a long list of complaints about the FS7, but WB is no longer one of them.
 
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That's a pretty specious argument to be honest.

Yeah, don't complain that 4k and your extension unit's Pro Res recording were enabled 2 months after they were promised... Just work around the things that are supposed to be there not being there. Just work around the awful shadow banding in raw. Just work around the camera resetting its shutter angle at random. Hey, it's not a bug it's a feature and you should be more flexible with wanting to maintain a 180deg shutter...

I'm happy being flexible works for you and that the way YOU want to use the camera doesn't fall foul of the 'quirks' of the system. The idea that everyone who doesn't work precisely the same way you prefer to is being inflexible is absurd.
 
Ben, did you even read my post? Or did you jsut decide to disagree as soon as you saw it was me. Yes, the camera has flaws!!!!!!!!!!! I was ONLY TALKING ABOUT WHITE BALANCE in the post above. I was ONLY TALKING ABOUT WHITE BALANCE. I was ONLY TALKING ABOUT WHITE BALANCE. Yes, we should complain and hope they improve other issues on the camera. But this one has been fixed. It was not overlooked as you said, even though the outcome is not the way Ben wants it to be. White balance works exactly like it is supposed to work. So now people who don't like the way it works either have to accept it or move on to a different camera that meets their needs better.
 
Why would I disagree just because it was you? Life's way too short for that sort of silliness. Plus I bought your course and said nice things about it! :)

I made the point that the WB doesn't affect me as I almost exclusively use CINE EI mode, but was responding people saying WB still has a magenta cast in some modes and I was responding to someone else saying it was overlooked by saying that is impossible because it was so widely reported.

As for the rest I replied because you posted directly after me and appeared to be addressing me. If you weren't then cool.

For the record, the FS7 as advertised absolutely meets my needs. The FS7 with a bunch of bugs and caveats and late delivery of features is a slightly different proposition for me and one that I thought I was moving away from when I came to Sonyland.

I guess I'll wait for NAB and the the FS8 announcement :)
 
Can I just say that I'm finding the menu control more responsive, or rather, less prone to drift. Which is nice...
 
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