New cams! 1080p60! Panasonic HDC-HS700 & HDC-TM700

If you look hard, you'll find native 1080 50p/60p files from the FH1/FH1A and the HD2000/HD2000A in Vimeo if you want the closest idea on how these files are going to look and I do expect the TM700/HM700 to look better.
 
Robert M Wright said:
One of the reasons I've been in no real hurry to replace my HV20, is the lack of 60p recording ability in a palm size camcorder (the other being 24p getting recorded in 60i streams). I'd really prefer it if they had put 720p60 recording ability in this new cam, but if the quality of 1080p60 at 28Mbps turns out to be decent, I'll take a hard look at getting one (after the price settles down) - looking forward to hearing what people have to say, and seeing some samples (straight from the cam - not YouTube stuff), once these cams start getting out there in the hands of real-world shooters.
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Sanyo has had a 60P palm sized camcorder for nearly a year now. I've owned the Sanyo FH1 for a while now and like it a lot.

Pani's purchase of Sanyo means that Sanyo's avchd 60P technology was incorporated in these new Pani cameras. I'm very eager to see how Pani's OIS works. Looks like a killer camera.

Does anyone have an estimated price for the TM700? I've seen guesses from $1100-$1800 US.

regards
JohnG
 
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It's $1,000 at B&H. The high figures comes from people converting the UK price of the HS700 to US Dollars. They fail to realize that UK prices are usually significantly more money than US prices.

Panasonic and Sony are usually working on stabilizer technology all the time.
The Sony CX500V had a stabilizer that was proven to be better than the Panasonic TM300 but Panasonic claimed that the TM350 had a much better stabilizer than their TM300 and I haven't seen the CX500V and the TM350 being compared. Now Panasonic is claiming that the TM700 is even better than the TM350.

It would definitely be interesting to compare the stabilizer between the new TM700 and the new CX550V. The stabilizers from any other company won't come close. It would also be interesting to compare the low-light capabilities considering the TM700's lens is much faster than their previous versions.
 
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Camera Expert said:
It's $1,000 at B&H. The high figures comes from people converting the UK price of the HS700 to US Dollars. They fail to realize that UK prices are usually significantly more money than US prices.

Panasonic and Sony are usually working on stabilizer technology all the time.
The Sony CX500V had a stabilizer that was proven to be better than the Panasonic TM300 but Panasonic claimed that the TM350 had a much better stabilizer than their TM300 and I haven't seen the CX500V and the TM350 being compared. Now Panasonic is claiming that the TM700 is even better than the TM350.

It would definitely be interesting to compare the stabilizer between the new TM700 and the new CX550V. The stabilizers from any other company won't come close. It would also be interesting to compare the low-light capabilities considering the TM700's lens is much faster than their previous versions.
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Thanks. I have the TM700 on autonotify. :D
 
I was just curious about editing with FCP. I don't think FFCP can transcode it into ProRes. I guess we'll have to see if Cineform updates their software to handle 1080/60p H.264
 
robertrogoz said:
I was just curious about editing with FCP. I don't think FFCP can transcode it into ProRes. I guess we'll have to see if Cineform updates their software to handle 1080/60p H.264
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I use Mpeg Streamclip to transcode the 60P avchd (from the FH1) into ProRes 422. Tastes great and it's less filling.................... well, actually the ProRes files are pretty filling. :grin:

Edit: Has anyone seen this pup in the wild yet? It's March 1 after all!

cheers to Pani
JohnG
 
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Robert M Wright said:
A heck of a lot depends on what you are going to do with the footage in post, between shooting it and delivering it.

For example, if all you are going to do is take 1080i60 straight from a cam and re-encode for broadcast (4:2:0 MPEG-2 at less than 20Mbps), there isn't a whole bunch of difference if the 1080i60 out of the cam was recorded at 4:2:2 with 100Mbps AVC-I or at 4:2:0 with 21Mbps AVCHD (all else, like imaging block, lens, etc. being equal). Now, if you're going to do a bunch of stuff, like CC, adjust gamma, cross-fades, maybe crop and/or resize frames, etc., it can make a whale of a difference. The more you oversample in acquisition (whether it's higher res luma sampling and/or higher res color sampling, or more bits of precision - as well as better compression that maintains a higher level of image fidelity, coming from the imaging head) the more leeway you have in post.
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You still shoot 1080i!!!!?
 
http://panasonic.net/avc/camcorder/hd/hs700_tm700_sd700/feature1.html

http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-...rs/model.HDC-TM700K_11002_7000000000000005702

http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-...rs/model.HDC-HS700K_11002_7000000000000005702

er_photo_129190_52.jpg

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/camcorders/275911/first-look-panasonics-hdc-tm700-hd-camcorder
 
Robert Ruffo said:
You still shoot 1080i!!!!?
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Uh-uh, 1080i, shame-shame! In fact, 1080i60 is the second best format after 720p60. About the same info in the frame, the same real-life motion portrayal, and modern TVs support it. Frankly, I don't think that a consumer or even a lower-end professional camera needs 1080p60, 720p60 is more than enough. But for some odd reason 720p is not available on mainstream consumer camcorders. 1080p60 is overkill, and there is no way to deliver it, neither on BD nor over the Web. Could be fine for future-proofing, for archives, but totally pointless now.
 
John Godden said:
I use Mpeg Streamclip to transcode the 60P avchd (from the FH1) into ProRes 422. Tastes great and it's less filling.................... well, actually the ProRes files are pretty filling. :grin:

Edit: Has anyone seen this pup in the wild yet? It's March 1 after all!

cheers to Pani
JohnG
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John, I am a bit curious about the workflow with 1080/60p and FCP6 then. I assume that after the Sanyo purchase by Panasonic they will incorporate FH1 codec into their camera? When you transcode 1080/60p into Prores what frame rate does it pop out as?
Also can anyone cofirm 1080/24p with new Panasonic?
I also wanted to see if Cineform Neoscene would transcode AVCHD 1080/60p into FCP6 editable content?
Thanks for the input.
 
robertrogoz said:
Also can anyone cofirm 1080/24p with new Panasonic?
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Have you followed the links two messages above? It is the same 24p in 60i crap. It is a shame Panasonic has returned to this "TV friendly" encoding after two generations of consumer models that had native 24p. Boo!
 
Cranky said:
Have you followed the links two messages above? It is the same 24p in 60i crap. It is a shame Panasonic has returned to this "TV friendly" encoding after two generations of consumer models that had native 24p. Boo!
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Yes, that is why I asked, as the website was not clear. I am not so keen on 24p, as I shoot a lot of ski footage and on my JVC GY-HM100 I am using mostly 720/60p setting. However I am not happy with crappy controlls on HM100, so I was thinking about selling it and trading it for HMC150/ new 700 combo. However I am afraid of the painful process of transcoding the footage, a need for large HDD's and whole delivery process. XDCAM codec is easy to work with and produces really stunning images and is easy for web delivery. Anyway, I guess I'll take "wait and see" approach, so I don't regret the trade.
I started shooting with DVX100, JVC cams were nothing but pain to deal with, so I wanted to return to Panny, which was bullet proof in the field.
 
It seems now would not be a good time to purchase an HMC150 if 1080p60 is now in Panasonic's consumer cameras. I wanted to move up to a pro camera but now I'll purchase the tm700 or wait. Good slow motion is important since I have alot of crash sequences in my clips. Am I right in thinking it would be crazy to upgrade now without getting 1080p60?
 
robertrogoz said:
John, I am a bit curious about the workflow with 1080/60p and FCP6 then. I assume that after the Sanyo purchase by Panasonic they will incorporate FH1 codec into their camera? When you transcode 1080/60p into Prores what frame rate does it pop out as?
****snip ****
Thanks for the input.
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60P ................. :thumbsup:

Baring a surprise negative review, I've pretty much decided to purchase this Pani camera. Have my email linked to several wait lists.

cheers
JohnG
 
Ken Snyder said:
It seems now would not be a good time to purchase an HMC150 if 1080p60 is now in Panasonic's consumer cameras. I wanted to move up to a pro camera but now I'll purchase the tm700 or wait. Good slow motion is important since I have alot of crash sequences in my clips. Am I right in thinking it would be crazy to upgrade now without getting 1080p60?
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The difference between 1080 and 720 isn't that huge on the 150, so you wouldn't be missing a ton even if there was another version with 1080p60. An HMC40 has higher resolution than a 150... but as we know, resolution isn't everything.

1080p60 is cool to me because it shows they are willing to break out of the limits implied by the standards. If this does carry over to the professional line, I'd be much more interested to see that bandwidth applied to 720p120!!!
 
Ken Snyder said:
It seems now would not be a good time to purchase an HMC150 if 1080p60 is now in Panasonic's consumer cameras. I wanted to move up to a pro camera but now I'll purchase the tm700 or wait. Good slow motion is important since I have alot of crash sequences in my clips. Am I right in thinking it would be crazy to upgrade now without getting 1080p60?
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it's not only about bite rate, but a big effect on picture quality will have the lens quality and size, color saturation, dynamic range. Lens size in particular has huge impact- bigger the lens= more detail. A 46mm diameter lens will never be able to show the amount of detail of a 72mm. I am sure 720/60p out of HMC150 will have equally good (if not better) results then 1080/60p put of smaller TM700.
Depends also on your output- networks prefer P2 or XDCAM codecs, AVCHD is still not a accepted broadcast standard (really there is not such thing as "broadcast standard", but it is what engineers are used to deal with), but it will be much harder to sell AVCHD, unless you have proven track record. BD is simply too $$$ for a small company, so it's either a DVD or a web, which HMC150 is more then enough.
 
The HMC40 is a bit sharper and more detailed than the HMC150 so I don't understand what you're trying to say. In theory the TM700 at 1080 60p should be sharper than the HMC150 at 720 60p. Still, if your final solution will be 720 60p, it would have been better to start with 720 60p.

I see a huge potential with this camera because of 1080 60p. Sanyo's camcorders have had a lot of success because of that mode but the people who were forced to look elsewhere did so because of the numerous complaints of the stabilizer and because of the fact that it can only record until 4 gigs.

I find it as a very big deal that you can do slow-motion sequences at 1920x1080p verses 720p.


I'm not sure I'd agree with the notion that Blu-Ray is too expansive for a small business. I mean most burners cost under $300 and some cost under $200. Blu-Ray media can cost under $3 a piece when bought in a pack and their are a whole lot of people with PS3 game systems.
 
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