New Camera, What Computer?

[Jimmy Moss]

and jimmy, what would be the issue with the integrated 9400m Nvidia card?
is it a "doesnt work" or an "isnt as fast" situation?

It will work, but not very well. The 9400m is an integrated card and "borrows" memory from the system memory, which is generally slower than the dedicated memory on dedicated graphics cards (which is GDDR3 or similar).

Also, I vote for the second system. The graphics card is extremely important for video work. Most modern programs try and keep all graphics processing within the graphics card GPU and tries to skip main memory and processor, which makes them less important. Also, the faster graphics card is what will significantly reduce your render times (and system memory). Processor speed is less of an issue these days as most programs never utilized all the speed/cores.

Hard drive speed is also a bottleneck, so the faster the drive the better.

 

[AlpineSteez]

It will work, but not very well. The 9400m is an integrated card and "borrows" memory from the system memory, which is generally slower than the dedicated memory on dedicated graphics cards (which is GDDR3 or similar).

Also, I vote for the second system. The graphics card is extremely important for video work. Most modern programs try and keep all graphics processing within the graphics card GPU and tries to skip main memory and processor, which makes them less important. Also, the faster graphics card is what will significantly reduce your render times (and system memory). Processor speed is less of an issue these days as most programs never utilized all the speed/cores.

Hard drive speed is also a bottleneck, so the faster the drive the better.

No worries. I went with one of the new imacs.

3.2gHz Dual Core i3, 512mb graphics card, 4 gigs of ram, 1TB 7200RPM HDD, ect..... it's running FCS 7 fine.

I am however having a super hard time getting used to the workflow with p2.

Oh and I have been editing on Sony Vegas 8 Pro for 2 years. Final Cut Pro is giving me problems. I'd consider myself an "expert" in Vegas, but it seems like the simplest things are extremely frustrating in FCP which is limiting my artistic abilities for now. I went with FCP because it's "the industry standard" and supposedly better. I hope I get used to it soon......

Ugh.....

 

[docrock]

"Make certain to buy a solid external FW800 dedicated media drive running at 7200 rpm"

Did you heed David's advice? This is important. Grab an external drive for your footage to live on. use the internal drive for your OS and programs. This should speed your workflow up. What issues are you having with P2 workflow? With FCP? There are a couple of excellent resources to learn FCP, one I use for new employees is Lynda.com. Easy to follow video training...a few hours and $25 for a month of unlimited learning and you'll be as comfortable in FCP as you are/were in Vegas.

Good Luck, stick with it...you'll get it nailed. Nice computer, by the way...and Killer Camera! Congratulations

J

 

[wgzn]

What issues are you having with P2 workflow?

it took me about a week to totally get my head around things.

the simple answer is:

assign scratch disc to external drive
make new folder on drive called P2_SOURCE
copy each P2 card to a new folder in that folder
log and transfer from each new folder
work
done.

when time permits. buy a second external drive and back up everything youve done.

 

[AlpineSteez]

Thanks wgzn.

I have a folder called "P2 DUMP" that I'm dropping the files into. I have a sub folder for each P2 card and I give it a date/ description. Now tell me...... is it possible to rename clips so it's easier to find them when I go to edit my master project? Numbers are very confusing.

I'm using log and transfer to get the clips in FCP. Does this cause quality loss? Does log and transfer transcode the footage into a different format or am I editing raw DVCproHD? Thanks for all the help.

I'm buying an external soon. I saw you recommend the OWC drives. Do I need a 0 raid or is a normal drive fine? This all confuses me, but I'll get the hang of things sooner or later.

 

[wgzn]

Now tell me...... is it possible to rename clips so it's easier to find them when I go to edit my master project? Numbers are very confusing.

yeah. L&T is really the ONLY place you can change names with NO risk of screwing stuff up. as whats going on here is quicktime files are being created from your source P2 mxf footage

the L&T window is the interface where the source MFX files are merged with their audio components and copied into quicktime movies that FCP can work with. see the green highlighted field in the image below? thats where you can call a clip whatever you want. but BE AWARE, in the discussion of FCP reliability. i have found that its wise to not use spaces or funky characters.
i usually stick to letters numbers and underscores like "camera1_stage_pan"

when you give it a name. you arent CHANGING the name of the file in the source P2 folder. youre giving a name to the quicktime file being created from it
(i know im being kind of redundant here. i just want to make sure you know whats happening)

there you will also find several other fields to enter a variety of other descriptives if you need them. this is also where you can click the "import settings" tab if you want to disable any of the 4 audio tracks that typically come with P2 footage.

as far as i know, there is no quality loss in the L&T step. i do recall some discussion about this where some said you do, and others say you dont. but as i recall, it really came down to a question of extra SPACE. you are more or less duplicating your footage. you have the original P2 (MFX and associated components) files in your DUMP folder and the newly created quicktime versions in the FCP scratch folder - which unless you reassigned it, is in the "Final Cut Pro Documents" folder inside the "Documents" folder on your internal drive.

again, the down side here is you are using more or less 2x the space youd use if you were working natively with MXF files. the UPSIDE is this kind of serves as your source archive. and i personally dig that!

as far as RAID version. there are several types. but basically RAID-0 is "striped" and is all about speed. youre writing to two drives simultaneously. RAID1 is what they call "mirrored" and this is more for security. as data is being "mirrored" i.e. duplicated on two drives. for my needs, i prefer RAID 0 as i do my own backing up and have yet to personally have any drive issues. some people disagree with this practice and prefer the comfort of a RAID1 setup.

its just a matter of what makes you happy

and NO. you do not "NEED" a RAIDED unit. i have several single drive units and they work fine for day to day, non-deadline-intensive work. but you WILL see a performance drop. as drive and transfer speed is just about THE most important cog in the performance equation.

as a side note. its smart to give your project a name before you log and transfer. as FCP creates a new set of folders (unless you choose to do it manually) named for each project.
so say you have a different project for SAMMYSGROCERY and another for JOESFURNITURE. in each of the various final cut pro documents folders you will find sub-folders with each projects name. which makes backing up easier.

i personally take that a step further and re-assign the scratch disk to each clients external drive or project folder. this adds a good deal of file management responsibility. but i personally find it easier in the long run. as everything for a particular client or project is in one single volume. so backup is typically a matter of a single drag and drop

 

[Jarek Zabczynski]

i personally take that a step further and re-assign the scratch disk to each clients external drive or project folder. this adds a good deal of file management responsibility. but i personally find it easier in the long run. as everything for a particular client or project is in one single volume. so backup is typically a matter of a single drag and drop

Ideally yes. I wish Apple would address the scratch disk issue we all seem to be asking for. For each project to REMEMBER what scratch disk it uses. I have two main drives for scratch. When both of them are running and I have muliple projects open, I often find myself working on a project with the media on one drive and find out I'm rendering to another. Scratch disks should be locked to their projects. When you start a project it should ask you what scratch disk you want for it and it should use ONLY that.

 

[wgzn]

For each project to REMEMBER what scratch disk it uses

thats been at the top of my feature wish list since like version 2!!! it cant be that hard can it?

When both of them are running and I have muliple projects open, I often find myself working on a project with the media on one drive and find out I'm rendering to another.

fortunately for me, 97% of the time im only FCPing for one client/project at a time. but for the remaining 3% of times... the slope gets slippery ; )

 

[wgzn]

I have a folder called "P2 DUMP"

id advise you from here forward (dont change the existing ones) to NOT use spaces in your folder/file names. if you need a space, use an underscore_.

if my hypothesis eventually proves true, its when TWO spaces appear in a file name that problems arise. but i find it wise to forego spaces in folder/file names altogether. just as a matter of practice

 

[AlpineSteez]

id advise you from here forward (dont change the existing ones) to NOT use spaces in your folder/file names. if you need a space, use an underscore_.

if my hypothesis eventually proves true, its when TWO spaces appear in a file name that problems arise. but i find it wise to forego spaces in folder/file names altogether. just as a matter of practice

I miss the simplicity of tape. I could do whatever I wanted with the files and i could name everything what I wanted to name it. When I bought into this solid state "beast" of a camera I assumed things would get even more simple. Sure, capturing sucked, but so does having a bunch of files stuck in a folder with bunch of numbers assigned to it.

I hate to complain, but it's just frustrating.

On another note, I think I'm going to buy one of those OWC drives you keep recommending. 2TB should be good for now I think. I'll buy another 2TB eventually to back it up I suppose. So tell me.......you've NEVER heard of one of these drives failing?

Thanks again for the help.

 

[Jarek Zabczynski]

Sure, capturing sucked, but so does having a bunch of files stuck in a folder with bunch of numbers assigned to it.

You can name your clips on ingest. I do wish you could at least add a prefix to the file names in camera before you shoot though.

 

[wgzn]

I miss the simplicity of tape. I could do whatever I wanted with the files and i could name everything what I wanted to name it. When I bought into this solid state "beast" of a camera I assumed things would get even more simple. Sure, capturing sucked, but so does having a bunch of files stuck in a folder with bunch of numbers assigned to it.

i think youre thinking about this all wrong. as my life got sooo much easier after i went to P2.

think of your "DUMP" folder as your "tape cabinet"
in the past, you didnt concern yourself with how the data was stored on the tape. and you dont really need to be concerned with how it works now - just where it is.

when you used to log and capture you had to give things a name and send them to your scratch folder. how then is the P2 process any different?
the only real difference here is instead of storing your source footage in a drawer or box. you now store it on a hard drive.

to be honest i rarely even look at the file numbers of the mxf files. BUT if you look at all the files when you do the log and transfer step. you may notice that they are in numerical order from top to bottom. so for me, the process became less random feeling over time.

and as far as not being able to name things what you want. you still can!
the reasons for the naming conventions ive suggested to you are two-fold:

1. because some people have encountered a variety of "glitches" with FCP and P2.
i have never had any of those issues. so ive spent a LOT of time talking to folks to find out what they do that i dont (or vice versa) and so far, the primary culprit seems to be how they name and manage their files.

2. you should get into a some kind of naming convention in ALL your computer work anyway. it just keeps things organized and easy to find. with my system i always know where and what things are based on their names. if you used to "name everything what you wanted to name it" you were just practicing sloppy file management anyway... the only real confinement my suggested process gives you is that you shouldnt use spaces. oh the horror! ; )

as far as drive failure goes. no. in over 15 years i have never had a "drive" fail (from any company or brand) i have had enclosures and power supplies go bad from several brands. but thats an easy fix. i did have a couple lacie externals several years ago that had firewire termination issues which permanently corrupted my data.

as far as OWC drives go. no, ive never had a problem. and whats even better, THEY discovered a problem in the manufacturing process on one of their drives (one i happened to own). so one day i got a surprise replacement part in the mail with an explanation and instructions. i'd never had a problem wih that drive. but i replaced the part anyway.

but i may just have good karma. ANY drive from ANY company CAN fail...