New camera April 5th?
- Thread starter TomLenham
- Start date
Barry_Green
Moderator
I don't recall any statement by her about what will or won't be coming out. All I've said is that I would find it highly surprising if they were to introduce anything new at this point. There's really nothing out there that competes with the AF100 at its price point, it's $3500 brand new after rebates, so it's a full 1/3 less than the FS100 and has a lot more features than the FS100 does. So what would be the big rush-up to replace it?
Now, entering a new market (like my oft-wished-for upscale P2 10-bit AVC-Intra version) is something different, that would be a new model at a new price point. Is something like that coming? I will find out when you all do, mid-April at NAB...
Barry_Green
Moderator
But -- Canon's camera costs over 4x as much as Panasonic's. Do you really think that they're in competition, or that the C300 has had any effect on AF100 sales? I would be surprised if anyone was choosing between those two products. Now, if Canon had come out with a $4,000 C100 I would see the comparison, certainly.
Sony's been introducing large-sensor cameras at a surprising pace -- in the last year and a half we've seen F3, FS100, F65, and FS700. But three of those are not competition, certainly the F65 at $65,000 and the F3 at $14,000-ish are not competition for an AF100. And I'd argue that few people will be stressing the choice between a $3500 AF100 and a $9,000 FS700 either, those are wildly different price classes. The only camera that it would seem reasonable that people would actually consider from Sony vs. the AF100 would be the FS100, and that's 1/3 more expensive and has a lot fewer features.
So from their perspective (Panasonic's perspective) -- is there actually any REAL competition for what they're offering? (note - not saying is one better than the other, just asking if a customer in a certain price bracket is shopping, what are they really comparing?)
When there is actual competition and sales are definitively impacted, that's the point where I'd expect a new product from them. But has that point happened? Is a $9,000 FS700 really going to take sales away from a $3,500 AF100? Maybe it will. I would be surprised if it was a substantial impact, but maybe it would be; if that's the case, then I'd expect them to react. But seeing as the AF100 is only barely over a year old, it seems unlikely that they're in any big rush to replace it, doesn't it?
Well, see, here's the thing -- I believe that people's attention spans and sense of time and perspective have collapsed dramatically since the spread of the internet. Our sense of proportion of how long it should take to do something, and how quickly things should happen, seem to be unrealistically shortened now that we have instant communications, instant feedback, instant everything. Just because Sony and Canon can announce press releases within days of each other, does not give JVC or Panasonic the ability to engineer, design, produce, manufacture, and ship products any quicker. Any of these products will have to have been in development for at least a year or more. If you think Panasonic has to respond to the FS700 announcement, you've GOT to wait a year for them to consider it, evaluate the market, figure out where they think the FS700 will impact them, and figure out if it's a substantial enough market to want to compete for, and then design and come up with a product, build the molds, make beta-test versions, test them, bug-fix them, build up a production line, and then put it in production.
To expect anything any quicker is just wildly unrealistic.
Heck, everyone talks about how Red is so small and fast and can respond so quickly, it took them three and a half years of development with their Scarlet to come up with a product that they eventually just abandoned. They've only, after five years, released two actual cameras (the Red One, and the Epic/Scarlet).
Stuff takes time.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Genius. How is that not a massive win?
Yeah, been waiting for that for a year, sure hope they do something exactly like it.
Melvin Harris
Black Flag Member
Sorry, my bad, I think I was reading an old post from last year or something. Sorry.
Melvin Harris
Black Flag Member
But aren't they playing up the 4k future proofing thing (although hidden cost in recorders and such may make that wildly expensive). I couldn't justify getting anything over the AF right now except for anything with that magic 4k moniker under the price and hassle of a Scarlet. Then, it's sort of like paying for the F3 and the Slog except its an FS100"B" with ND's and stuff it should have had from the beginning plus 4K.
Would that honestly be enough for an answer from Panasonic, or are we wishing for something more because we just want the newest and shiniest from our favorite company so it can compete with everyone else?
Gary Senda
Well-known member
Less than one year ago I and other AF101 italian customers were invited by mail by Panasonic Broadcast Europe to partecipate to a poll in a reserved area on Panasonic's website. The poll was about the successor of AF100. They wanted to know our opinion about a P2 based m43 camera and what features we expect to find in a more advanced m43 camera. Have AF100 customers received a similar invitation in other countries?
bruceallen
Well-known member
Alpha Beta Omega
Veteran
If I remember I also answered a couple of questions and sent a few comments last year on an European website.
I have to agree with Barry that the AF100 rests in its own price spot and I think it's more likely Panasonic get another type of large sensor camcorder on the market. Maybe both higher and lower and brand the lower end Lumix and the higher end HPX.
I have to agree with Barry that the AF100 rests in its own price spot and I think it's more likely Panasonic get another type of large sensor camcorder on the market. Maybe both higher and lower and brand the lower end Lumix and the higher end HPX.
Gary Senda
Well-known member
I've found the mail: I received it on april 7th. One year has gone. I received a similar mail some months after I buyed my GH1: they wanted to know my opinion about a m43 sensor based video camera. One year after they announced AF100.
Perhaps we will not see a similar camera to the NAB, but surely they have strongly considered to release the AF100's big brother and perhaps there is also a a working team on this project.
Perhaps we will not see a similar camera to the NAB, but surely they have strongly considered to release the AF100's big brother and perhaps there is also a a working team on this project.
Gary Senda
Well-known member
This is exactly what I think also: we have only to wait to see wich of the two will be the first.
But if Panasonic made the AF101 when there were only few lenses available for m43 there is no reason for not release a more advanced camera now that cine lenses for m43 are coming from Schneider
Wolfenbarg
Member
I hope they make something that hits the 2500-3000 dollar price point. Part of the reason the 5D magic didn't strike twice with these large sensor camcorders is that most of them still sit beyond the reach of most users who were interested in the 5D and other DSLRs in the first place. The AF40 idea is very appealing.
GrahamH
Well-known member
Just wanted to point out ... the HMC40 does have ND filters, just not directly manually controllable ones. And it would be a big plus to have them in a "HMC40 with GH2 sensor" - no ND filters is one of the most common gripes you hear about the FS100.
A few thoughts on the HMC40 combo ND - aperture wheel:
Although I actually like the HMC40 ND thingy, the implementation leaves a lot to be desired. The ND isn't strong enough for strong daylight, so as soon as you max out the ND capability, the lens starts to close down. As soon as you get to f5.6, resolution starts to take a hit. Anything past f8 and you have unusable footage. All this can happen on the fly if you aren't careful. The idea of the HMC40 is to be quick and nimble, and in daylight you have to take the extra step to add ND filters. This makes the cam not so quick and nimble. Did I mention that most all of the W/A lenses don't have filter threads.....
If Panny moved forward and used the ND-aperture wheel in the future, it needs much stronger filter strength, and a way to limit aperture.
Grant
Although I actually like the HMC40 ND thingy, the implementation leaves a lot to be desired. The ND isn't strong enough for strong daylight, so as soon as you max out the ND capability, the lens starts to close down. As soon as you get to f5.6, resolution starts to take a hit. Anything past f8 and you have unusable footage. All this can happen on the fly if you aren't careful. The idea of the HMC40 is to be quick and nimble, and in daylight you have to take the extra step to add ND filters. This makes the cam not so quick and nimble. Did I mention that most all of the W/A lenses don't have filter threads.....
If Panny moved forward and used the ND-aperture wheel in the future, it needs much stronger filter strength, and a way to limit aperture.
Grant
min lee
Active member
I wouldn't say the vg10/20 failed but it didn't appeal to this demographic mainly because it lack professional controls, a proposed af40 should have that and xlr if it takes after the hmc40. A small body like the hmc40 minus the top handle would go great with m43 pancake lenses for discrete and casual filming, while it can be build up with top handle xlr, cine lens, mattebox and follow focus for more professional shoots.
The sony vg's failed because sony actively cripples by price point. If you look at any product with an sdi port on it, a model without is $1000 less. So if Panasonic were to remove it from a lower end product, it should be that much less to start with. Once you do that, it is no longer direct competition for the higher product, because if you need that feature you will buy it.
I really like the vg20 form factor, more than the fs100 frankly. Whoever makes one that performs like a pro, even with menus instead of buttons for under $3000 will have my money.
I don't need 16000 iso, as I shoot narrative with lights.
If a lumix camcorder is released I'd expect to see it from the consumer division first, probably kit with those servo x- lenses and a zoom control on the body, followed by a pro version with the xlr module option.
I really like the vg20 form factor, more than the fs100 frankly. Whoever makes one that performs like a pro, even with menus instead of buttons for under $3000 will have my money.
I don't need 16000 iso, as I shoot narrative with lights.
If a lumix camcorder is released I'd expect to see it from the consumer division first, probably kit with those servo x- lenses and a zoom control on the body, followed by a pro version with the xlr module option.
HotConductor
Well-known member
All I want is a GH2 with less jello, servo-zoom, xlr inputs and the ability to shoot 48fps. Thats it. Same batteries, same cards. 48fps would be perfect slo-mo at 24p, and all footage would look normal with no weird conversions when placed in a 24fps workflow.
Oh, and bring Vitality on-board so that we can get great updates direct from Panasonic.
Oh, and bring Vitality on-board so that we can get great updates direct from Panasonic.
dillont
Well-known member
I'm not sure that the VG20 "fails". At the price point of $1600 (sans lens), it falls in line with most other cameras but provides manual controls over all the critical functions, its a large sensor and interchangeable. That's a pretty good entry level large sensor HD camera, in my opinion.
Adding additional features should put it much above the price point of $1600 if we're talking XLR, genlock, and other higher end pro options.
Considering Sony's first DV camera (the DV 1000, which I still have, btw), I think it matches in terms of "prosumer" capability.
Dillon
Adding additional features should put it much above the price point of $1600 if we're talking XLR, genlock, and other higher end pro options.
Considering Sony's first DV camera (the DV 1000, which I still have, btw), I think it matches in terms of "prosumer" capability.
Dillon