New camera announcements from Canon
- Thread starter alaskacameradude
- Start date
I think they are open to criticism for having basically nothing (until now) between the 1DC and C500 which needed an external recorder for 4k. And the 1DC itself (*for 4k/UHD video*) has been outclassed and overpriced for some time. The C300II I'm sure will be a great camera. I think they have missed opportunities, and lost the initiative.
Emanuel
Cross-Examiner
Your tone is the typical denial standpoint. You speak as a fanboy. C'mon you're a business man, what's that?! Serves what??
Sony is making their own business, coming from dusk when they had a market and they try to recover it back. Even if crossing new uncharted waters. Anyway, on your criticism behind your keyboard (no worries, I know you are a shooter : ) but not an a7RII shooter LOL) : Aliasing? Where? With the right setup? Color? Give me a break, you know we can extract whatever we want from any similar camera nowadays (inexistent point, buddy!). Overheating? Why to use an internal 4:2:0 codec when we can do it externally but 4:2:2 when for longer shots?
About Canon to be the professional choice of many (not necessarily of 100% of them, what the hell?... : )) take a look on my other post earlier today on reduser (yes, reduser):
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?135945-Canon-8K-Camera&p=1541489&viewfull=1#post1541489
dustylense
Veteran
I speak as a fanboy? Who is the one talking about Sony cameras in a Canon news thread? LOL.
My criticism behind the keyboard? My criticism was behind the camera. Like I told you, myself and a very well respected shooter buddy of mine (robert sebree. Toby Pederson Google them) both tried the A7r in search of a higher megapixel camera for when we didn't want to shoot medium format backs. We spent a couple weeks testing together and separately and found that not only did we hate the system (the build) but we hated the color. Like HATED. Both of us were confused as to why Sony put a PLASTIC lens mount on the camera! And the shutter vibration was just too heavy for 36Mp's. Horrible base for mounting the camera. Just a terrible design through and through. Which is why they release VII of both the A7 and A7r so close together. They are pumping out cameras without even completing the first version making up for the poor design of the previous version. And suckers stand in line and buy each one.
The only A series Sony worth a darn is the A7s and it's useless for photography other than web applications.
So you say "Why to use an internal 4:2:0 codec when we can do it externally but 4:2:2 when for longer shots?" Why have internal 4K then. Why not save $3200 and go with the A7s and recorder?
YES! Highlight aliasing in pretty much all sony consumer cameras on video (F3/5/55/s7 not included). I see it in nearly every video.
Now, on the video side of things. I'm talking Production Video you come to any rental house in LA and ask them, "What is the best and most rented camera you've had in the past 2 years?". They ALL will tell you the Canon C300. ALL OF THEM! Why? Because it's a workhorse. And the C300II is going to keep that or even surpass that. Why? Because it's a workhorse that is now ACES ready with a great sensor and the system is proven, day in and day out. And now they are moving into 8K (for the Olympics in Japan obviously) and a 120MP Dslr? Damn!
I'm not a fanboy. I'm a realist. As are these guys and gals.
Rylan Zolinski
Well-known member
Yeah, Canon is really innovative with that T2i. Wait, what year is it?
alaskacameradude
Veteran
My buddy is a pro stills shooter too and he uses all Sony and hates Canon. His clients
dont seem to mind this horrible 'Sony Color'.......and he has some pretty big clients which
makes me think he must be able to get color that looks just fine out of them.....
As for Sony constantly releasing cameras, yeah they sure do that. And it sucks
when your newly purchased cam loses all value and is outdated overnight. On
the other hand, Canon didn't really offer anything in the 4k/10 bit space for anyone
in the 6-10K market so at least Sony gave a lot of people something they could afford.
I kind of see both advantages and disadvantages to Sony's approach and not all
disadvantages as you seem to. As for Canon's C300 Mark II yeah it looks nice.
It isn't exactly something you can use yet though, which is why I'll hold off on
crowning it yet. By the time it comes out, Sony will probably have released 20
more cameras (just kidding....I think).....but they will have some new cams
and maybe one of them will compete strongly with the C300 Mark II.
Emanuel
Cross-Examiner
LOL
But have you read my post?
You've just ended to write to yourself, no coherent argue nor based on my quote for sure : D
BTW, "Who is the one talking about Sony cameras in a Canon news thread?" YOU, dude! LMAO
alaskacameradude
Veteran
Well great, but LA isn't the only place with rental houses where film production
goes on. And this well known rental house has a much different perspective than
yours......no spoilers but you can see for yourself what is rented most often in a NYC
rental house (hint, it rhymes with Pony).
http://www.adorama.com/alc/7967/article/adorama-rental-companys-5-most-rented-gear-pros
As for being a realist, I could easily find a picture of a actual motion
picture setworking with a Sony....but what do pictures prove?
Some people work with a Canon or a Sony?? As I am the OP,
the post wasn't supposed to be a Sony vs. Canon thing
so much as a 'hey look, this is cool' type thing. So let's just say
that plenty of pros use Sony and plenty use Canon. I'm sure
we would all agree Sony and Canon take different approaches
to how they market and sell. Who cares? Pros use both.
I tend to be more in the 6-10K range for cameras, so
I tend to use Sony more often. But that's just a personal
budget thing, I've worked on several C300 shows and a
couple 5D ones as well. Pretty much all the cameras
these days look pretty good in my opinion. I'm interested
in the new Sony FS7 'little brother' AND this new Canon
announcement! Because that is just how much of a camera junkie I
am.......I want them all!......lol.
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The C300 rents a lot because it's a good camera AND because it's cheap. But rentability says nothing about a camera's image quality. Arguably the best camera in the world currently probably rents very little. The F65. Because it's neither cheap to rent or cheap to run. There are way more low dollar productions than multi-million dollars ones. Low dollar productions will rent low dollar cameras. This is why the C300 rents a lot. Simple economics and not any proof of a camera's image quality. Not saying the C300 is a bad camera. It is not. Just saying that the argument of my camera rents out more than yours is plain silly.
dustylense
Veteran
And 99.8 % of the people here work on those low dollar productions. And 1/10 people here have ever seen the F65 in person, much less operated one. Which is why the c300 has been the hottest rental as of late.
Not saying "my camera" rents more than yours. What I'm saying is I laugh at people who say Canon is behind the curve and does not inovate. I use canon for stills but in the video world I use mostly panasonic.
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
I don't think anyone was saying the C-series is the best at image quality. Black Magic cameras often have better image quality (in ideal conditions) than C-series at a lower price, yet are a pain to work with. Rentability tends to show how good a camera is overall. Image quality is rarely the only thing that people consider when deciphering how good a camera is, otherwise as you said the F65 would be one of the most rented digital cameras. Even the F35 has better image quality than a Red and is cheaper as well, but lacks a lot of features and marketablity that newer cameras have and thus isn't used very much.
That said, plenty of professionals use Sony cameras. Audio guy I worked with recently said he's been seeing more Sony F55's than Reds around lately.
As far as still photography, though, at least in the wedding world I rarely see Sony cameras; maybe once or twice out of 120 weddings, and I think both times it was a beginner photographer using it. It's just about always Canon or Nikon. Never saw Panasonic either.
That said, plenty of professionals use Sony cameras. Audio guy I worked with recently said he's been seeing more Sony F55's than Reds around lately.
As far as still photography, though, at least in the wedding world I rarely see Sony cameras; maybe once or twice out of 120 weddings, and I think both times it was a beginner photographer using it. It's just about always Canon or Nikon. Never saw Panasonic either.
i think the canon c-series cams produce an image that is just beautiful. skin tones, colors, just gorgeous. looking at Mainstreetproductions's trailer in the other thread, I think the FS7 footage also looks very nice (though it is hard to separate the cam quality from the grading). Never personally used or been on set with a blackmagic cam, and been scared away from considering one for myself cause of the weird issues like the black sun thing and more practical things like lack of XLRs etc. on the models in my price range...plus theyre still kind of an "unproven" cam maker, unlike the big boys. I can tell you in Houston the C cams are very popular, many folks own them. i am starting to hear talk and excitement about the FS7 now, though by those same folks. Funny, I dont think anyone in town in the circles I work in knew the FS700 EXISTED, only ever met one guy with one and he wasnt part of the crew I was on that day.
Emanuel
Cross-Examiner
Sure, you are the only paladin for Canon products here :thumbsup:
C'mon, they will not send you that new model before than I will actually buy one. That "my camera rents more than yours" or "LA rental houses know best" crosses all of your wording here, oh yeah
Ebrahim Saadawi
Carbonite Member
It's all about practicality (power, size, weight, lenses, NDs, file sizes, storage, buttons, ergonomics) AND Image quality.
BOTH,
That's the point, and the reason why the C300 is the most beloved and rented camera. It hits that balance. Practicality and high enough IQ for all applications.
For example, Blackmagic cameras have better IQ, even the pocket cinema camera, but not the practicality. Sony F65, higher IQ but horrendous practicality, etc
It's all about the striking the balance of a camera that does it ALL. Which is why I predict the Sony FS7 to become the highest selling camera in Sony history, being a balance between s35 feature-ready IQ AND practicality.
Why does the C300 sell so much more and get used SO much more and became SO much more successful than the Scarlet while the Scarlet has a markedly better image quality? Because it doesn't have the practicality of the C300 while the C300 has a good-enough IQ.
It's all about that balance. Hit it, and you have yourself a winner.
Go for ultimate IQ and ignore practicality, you are exclusive to high-end feature productions that are 10% of the camera market, and if you're that type then a balanced camera is no use you want the ultimate IQ so go ahead for Alexa/Red/BM/F65.
Go for balancing both very high s35 image quality that's enough for all production (not ultimate) and extreme practicality, and you get yourself the rest 90% of the market (This is C300 and FS7, and only those two, nothing else)
Balance between IQ and Practicality. Not one over the other makes sales. That's why the C300 is where it's at, not because it s the best at neither IQ not practicality, but a perfect balance for the largest number of shooters.
The C300II keeps the practicality part and takes the IQ to Alexa/Red/F65 league so it will be even more successful.
Now that 8K Cinema camera, I would hope they go also for balance but they might go for the niche very high-end market and drop practicality for ultimate cinema quality as in Alex/Red/F65.
BOTH,
That's the point, and the reason why the C300 is the most beloved and rented camera. It hits that balance. Practicality and high enough IQ for all applications.
For example, Blackmagic cameras have better IQ, even the pocket cinema camera, but not the practicality. Sony F65, higher IQ but horrendous practicality, etc
It's all about the striking the balance of a camera that does it ALL. Which is why I predict the Sony FS7 to become the highest selling camera in Sony history, being a balance between s35 feature-ready IQ AND practicality.
Why does the C300 sell so much more and get used SO much more and became SO much more successful than the Scarlet while the Scarlet has a markedly better image quality? Because it doesn't have the practicality of the C300 while the C300 has a good-enough IQ.
It's all about that balance. Hit it, and you have yourself a winner.
Go for ultimate IQ and ignore practicality, you are exclusive to high-end feature productions that are 10% of the camera market, and if you're that type then a balanced camera is no use you want the ultimate IQ so go ahead for Alexa/Red/BM/F65.
Go for balancing both very high s35 image quality that's enough for all production (not ultimate) and extreme practicality, and you get yourself the rest 90% of the market (This is C300 and FS7, and only those two, nothing else)
Balance between IQ and Practicality. Not one over the other makes sales. That's why the C300 is where it's at, not because it s the best at neither IQ not practicality, but a perfect balance for the largest number of shooters.
The C300II keeps the practicality part and takes the IQ to Alexa/Red/F65 league so it will be even more successful.
Now that 8K Cinema camera, I would hope they go also for balance but they might go for the niche very high-end market and drop practicality for ultimate cinema quality as in Alex/Red/F65.
Ebrahim Saadawi
Carbonite Member
F65 is not the best camera in the world. Best Image quality in the world is the more accurate probability,
Can you put a pocket size batter in an F65, a tiny CF card, an EF lens, and go shoot a day, handheld, and get back put the card in your laptop, star cutting and grading and still maintain a super high quality s35 image?
No, the C300 is a better camera than the F65 in that sense, it's a huge weight, an enormous power hog, records gigantic files to astronomically priced media, can't be handheld, no Image stabilization, and is a completely different kind of a camera alltogether. So not the best in the world in practicality, just IQ (arguably)
Again, it's about hitting the BALANCE between image quality and practicality.
And also, the number of sales and rental amounts is a perfectly accurate indication of the camera's overall performance, again, not in IQ, not in practicality, but in both. It'a not ''plain silly'' to keep it in mind. The F65 doesn't rent for reasons, because it has problems the C300 doesn't have, and the advantage it gives is only needed by a tiny number of the shooters, thus, tiny number of rentals/sales, which is a perfectly accurate indicator the camera doesn't hit the IQ/Practicality Balance.
BALANCE. Canon got it right with the C300, C300II, C100, C100II, but I have a feeling they'll be going for the lower numbered highest end market with this new 8K camera and go full fledged Red/Alexa/F65 style to please that crowd, as they already have the C300II for the other higher numbered crowd. Just like Sony is doing having an FS7 and an F65,
BUT, if they can make a full-fledged Alexa/red/F65 style camera and still keep the practicality intact, it'll explode into the high end market, the Arri Amira is exploding since it's getting closer to that balance.
Ebrahim Saadawi
Carbonite Member
View attachment 104872
I was under the impression the lens was just a mock-up existent CN-E with a 4K badge but it's actually a true existent Canon 8K s35 Cine lens with servo capability (notice the connection cable), actually the body might not be a mock-up too, perhaps it is a C300II shaped like the C500 was.
I was under the impression the lens was just a mock-up existent CN-E with a 4K badge but it's actually a true existent Canon 8K s35 Cine lens with servo capability (notice the connection cable), actually the body might not be a mock-up too, perhaps it is a C300II shaped like the C500 was.