New Blackmagic Camera July 16th?

ahalpert said:
This is true. Maybe a lot of people will buy the camera - JB certainly seems interested. If you liked the UMP G2 and data is not a problem, then there seem to be few drawbacks from this new camera.

But will the VFX heavy shows and movies go for this over RED? Remains to be seen.

Lower budget VFX I could see this being a huge win for. But the really low budget stuff still can't afford it. And once you get even a modest budget, the camera cost is less a part of the whole budget. So the camera will need to compete on quality more than on cost
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Take 12K off the table for a second and think of it as the G3, a successor to the G2.

It has a brand new sensor design that isn’t even Bayer, as a way of making better colour science from a company known for their colour science.

If you own and like a G2, then this is your upgrade. Even better if you have a G2 or a 4.6K....
JB
 
mico said:
Its Braw. Make it look like you want

Its 12k. Shooting for 4k You've got close up , medium and wide in one shot.

You can edit this on a laptop

Do VFX? You're happy


They released this camera. You want something else. Got it.
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I'm fine with BRAW. I would just like the option to also shoot more compressed to save space. BMD never gives that option, despite many of their cameras being more budget friendly. Which is odd.

I can edit my C100 footage on my laptop as well. So no big deal.

Yeah I do want something else. It's not for me.
 
At least my G2 can do 4K super35 at 120 FPS, this 12K tops out at 110... I had no plan in entering the 8K market in the near future. 6K for a 4K master seemed good, but this is just sick.

Which lenses and at what f-stops can even resolve that much in Super35?

I'v very excited about the new design in terms of color and sensitivity (can this hopefully be the end of "fixed pattern noise" that plagues Ursas above 1600-ish ISO?)
 
High1ander said:
At least my G2 can do 4K super35 at 120 FPS, this 12K tops out at 110... I had no plan in entering the 8K market in the near future. 6K for a 4K master seemed good, but this is just sick.

Which lenses and at what f-stops can even resolve that much in Super35?

I'v very excited about the new design in terms of color and sensitivity (can this hopefully be the end of "fixed pattern noise" that plagues Ursas above 1600-ish ISO?)
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Grant mentioned in the video that it was likely going to go up. I would expect to see 120FPS after a firmware update or two.

Re: Resolving power, there are likely very modern still primes that can resolve that much, cinema primes I don't think we have any. I could be wrong.
 
NorBro said:
puredrifting is going to have a fit. lol
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At this point, I just had to laugh. I didn't get bent out of shape or exclaim to Grant through my monitor.
FWIW, they have definitely made a bold move into uncharted territory and I admire that immensely. They
are 100% marching to the beat of their own drum and that takes guts.

FWIW, the new sensor technology and how they are leveraging it's compatibility with Resolve is kind of genius, although it will lose them sales for
those shooters and production company users who refuse to try or use Resolve. I love Resolve so that setup would totally work for me. BM RAW is great.

The sensor technology is actually intriguing, although I don't know if anyone was pining for 12K so "they could get good quality 8K". That made me laugh.

What I found disappointing was (and some of these are assumptions that could be wrong since Grant didn't cover these points) Perhaps Kholi and or John can verify these points since they've laid hands on a prototype?:

1. Internal ND will still be only 6 stops, not the 10 that we all need and want
2. XLR inputs are still in the worst possible location on the body
3. No new AF. This is possibly the most egregious because how can you quickly achieve sharp focus
for a format that no monitors exist that can reporoduce the native sensor resolution? If this camera
had Sony FX9 or Canon DPAF II level AF, I would actually be excited about possibly owning it! I think consistently
achieving critical 12K focus with this camera may be a huge challenge, although who knows for sure, I've never
shot 12K. Kholi, HOW did you achieve sharp focus consistently in 12K, how can you even tell when you are in
sharp focus in 12K? Only with image mag?
4. Not a peep about how they have dealt with IR pollution in this all new, made to spec sensor
5. No waveform monitor. Still?!?! False Color doesn't count for those of us who despise it and want the
industry standard waveform we've used to great success for the past few decades. False color works
great, but it's not fast or intuitive for those of us who have relied on waveform monitors for ages and shoot
under adverse conditions where speed and seeing what's going on at a millisecond glance is more important
that looking at and decoding a color map.

Yes, we're all going to say it, nobody needs 12K. Or even 8K. But I found enough other things about this
camera intriguing but I fear that they didn't address the fundamentals nearly well enough and concentrated
too much on resolution.
 
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John Brawley said:
It’s not slow motion. None of those clips are.

It was all shot on a Ronin R2, there’s a bobble mid take where I reframe as it moves closer. Might be the gimbal bobble ?
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My bad. So strange that I thought it was slow mo. Everything else in the video looked fine and good to me. Maybe the issue is my playback or my brain
 
John Brawley said:
Take 12K off the table for a second and think of it as the G3, a successor to the G2.

It has a brand new sensor design that isn’t even Bayer, as a way of making better colour science from a company known for their colour science.

If you own and like a G2, then this is your upgrade. Even better if you have a G2 or a 4.6K....
JB
Click to expand...

Yes, for this crowd the marketing push might have been more successful in emphasizing the new sensor design (which I'm dying to hear more about) and mentioning 12K as an extra.

As far as color - we'll need to see stress tests and side-by-side comparisons

And no matter what, it won't be a smart business investment for me. But only because of the nature of my bread and butter
 
From BM pocket camera specs:
Supported Codecs

Codecs
Blackmagic RAW Constant Bitrate 3:1,
Blackmagic RAW Constant Bitrate 5:1,
Blackmagic RAW Constant Bitrate 8:1,
Blackmagic RAW Constant Bitrate 12:1,
Blackmagic RAW Constant Quality Q0,
Blackmagic RAW Constant Quality Q5,
ProRes 422 HQ QuickTime,
ProRes 422 QuickTime,
ProRes 422 LT QuickTime,
ProRes 422 Proxy QuickTime.

Phew!

Yeah not a lot of compression options there. I'm out.
 
Blackmagic is a cartel of one. Privately owned, beholding to no one, they do what they want. No board meetings. No stockholder meetings. Minimum bureaucracy. Highly integrated over product lines. Fast on their feet. That's a beautiful thing. They sit back, watch the $$ flow in, have a few beers and get back to work. Someone doesn't like their new camera? No worries.

Note to product managers at other camera companies that see a cliff ahead; this might be a good move.
 
mico said:
From BM pocket camera specs:
Supported Codecs

Codecs
Blackmagic RAW Constant Bitrate 3:1,
Blackmagic RAW Constant Bitrate 5:1,
Blackmagic RAW Constant Bitrate 8:1,
Blackmagic RAW Constant Bitrate 12:1,
Blackmagic RAW Constant Quality Q0,
Blackmagic RAW Constant Quality Q5,
ProRes 422 HQ QuickTime,
ProRes 422 QuickTime,
ProRes 422 LT QuickTime,
ProRes 422 Proxy QuickTime.

Phew!

Yeah not a lot of compression options there. I'm out.
Click to expand...

Does it say anywhere if any of the Prores codecs can record at higher raster sizes than DCI 4K? I've I'm not mistaken (and I could be), I thought there are no official Apple specs for Prores over 4K?
 
Kholi said:
Grant mentioned in the video that it was likely going to go up. I would expect to see 120FPS after a firmware update or two.
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Only said my "camera had better FPS" so I can sleep without crying myself to sleep... :)

Kholi said:
Re: Resolving power, there are likely very modern still primes that can resolve that much, cinema primes I don't think we have any. I could be wrong.
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There surely are some "sharp" lenses out there, but I've have a hard time even getting the most of the 48 megapixels my full frame camera has with Prime Sigmas (not even close to utilize all 48 MP when wide open). In the APS-C market there are some sharp stuff, but not really as much as in the Full Frame segment. I would think that mostly all lenses are sub 40-megapixels in Super35 (35 Megapixels = 8K, I haven't seen any Cine-lenses tests, but I guess some Zeiss Ultra Primes or Master Primes might be good, but probably not enough for 80 Megapixels which 12K is). The highest megapixel count I can see on APS-C cameras is 32.5 (Canon 90D and Canon M6 Mark II), the highest in full frame is 61 MP (Sony A7R4). Point being, they are way above the "still photography" resolution in that sensor size, therefore it seems (and I gladly be proved wrong) oversampling without any reason.
 
It begs the question. What is the point of a 12K camera if the lens doesn't resolve 12K? And how much do lenses that resolve 12K cost and will buyers of a $10K camera be able to afford the lenses?

What about focus? There are no 12K monitors.

Once the shock of the 12K gimmick passes, at least for now, it's hard not to think a FX9 which is around the same price is probably a better bet for most shooters looking for cameras in that price range.

I know it's a new sensor tech and all. But we know nothing at this point. For all we know, it will still perform badly in low light or higher ISO as the current cameras, the shutter might be bad at 12K etc.

We shall see soon enough I guess. But for now it looks to be an unresolved product. Had it been FF, 6K or 8K, higher ISO with usable autofocus it would hit a sweet spot.
 
mico said:
From BM pocket camera specs:
Supported Codecs

Codecs
Blackmagic RAW Constant Bitrate 3:1,
Blackmagic RAW Constant Bitrate 5:1,
Blackmagic RAW Constant Bitrate 8:1,
Blackmagic RAW Constant Bitrate 12:1,
Blackmagic RAW Constant Quality Q0,
Blackmagic RAW Constant Quality Q5,
ProRes 422 HQ QuickTime,
ProRes 422 QuickTime,
ProRes 422 LT QuickTime,
ProRes 422 Proxy QuickTime.

Phew!

Yeah not a lot of compression options there. I'm out.
Click to expand...

I actually only see BRAW codecs listed in the supported codecs on the UMP 12K. No ProRes?

Here's what BM says about the sensor:

"The new 12K sensor has equal amounts of red, green and blue pixels"

That explains how they get greater color fidelity - more Rs and Bs

That also explains how you scale down to 4K RAW from 12K. Probably 3x3 pixel bin

And I guess somehow a 2x2 pixel bin works out for scaling to 8K RAW? Seems like your color pixels wouldn't be evenly distributed then...
 
mico's post wasn't about the 12K camera; it was to show the compressed options of past cameras to the other member.

The above is way more compression than anyone using it would need...or you are using the wrong camera.
 
IDK about the new camera, but at this point I see them phasing it out eventually and expanding BRAW to unmatched potential.

JB has mentioned they didn't even want to include it in the first camera.
 
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