new article - HVX Framerates explained

Haakon said:
I have a question about the juggling clips. Did you record the juggler 40 different times (once for each framerate example) and then stitch mutiple clips together on one screen in post,
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Yes. Recorded 33 different times, once at each frame rate. Actually had to do it 44 different times because we messed up on the shutter speed on one of the sequences and had to re-shoot it.
 
Barry_Green said:
Yes. Recorded 33 different times, once at each frame rate. Actually had to do it 44 different times because we messed up on the shutter speed on one of the sequences and had to re-shoot it.
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Interesting. This is not to knock you at all, because I found the visual example to be a really great tool for gauging the difference between framerates, but that also means that the guy juggling isn't always juggling at the exact same rate, and that's going to make the demonstration somewhat inaccurate. I just noticed that some framerates which are close together (specifically 22/24/26) seem to waiver slightly in speed in relation to each other... for instance, if the juggler was tossing the balls slightly faster in the 22 clip, it's going to negate the framerate difference when compared to the slightly faster 24 clip right next to it). If that makes any sense.

The article was very well written, but I'm just slightly confused about the 60 frames modes. There's an option for 60pN? I didn't remember seeing that on the model at DV Expo... how do you enable it? What would the difference be recording 60fps in "over 60" mode vs. "60pN" mode? Also, the two clips with only three examples in them both use "over 60" while the first should look significantly different if 60pN was included. Did you intend to use "over 60" there? If so, why? I'm trying to understand the difference more clearly.
 
There isn't an option for 60pN, but it's what you'd get if you extracted the active frames and played them at 60p.

The difference is whether you extract the frames or not. If you leave it in "over 60" mode, you get frame duplication (as shown in the 12p comparison clip; each frame in the 60p segment on the right is played five times). Versus if you extract the frames out you'd get one frame per, which would result in 10 variations of fast motion. So in "over 60" mode, 12fps results in one second of playback time, each frame duplicated five times. In what I am dubbing 60pN mode, 12fps would instead play back in 1/5 of a second. It's just a different timebase, extracting the raw frames and playing them back at a 60p timebase.
 
Haakon said:
the guy juggling isn't always juggling at the exact same rate, and that's going to make the demonstration somewhat inaccurate..
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wowzers.. sorry man, next time I will get barry to use the juggletron 2000 robot so the test is scientific enough for you. geeeez.
 
Barry_Green said:
Yes. Recorded 33 different times, once at each frame rate. Actually had to do it 44 different times because we messed up on the shutter speed on one of the sequences and had to re-shoot it.
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Yipes, this is getting complicated! Barry I hope you're burning the midnight oil on your new book (cause it sure looks like I'm going to need it).
 
Barry_Green said:
There isn't an option for 60pN, but it's what you'd get if you extracted the active frames and played them at 60p. The difference is whether you extract the frames or not.
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Ah, gotcha. Now that makes sense. Thanks for explaining it. :)
Jarred Land said:
wowzers.. sorry man, next time I will get barry to use the juggletron 2000 robot so the test is scientific enough for you. geeeez.
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Lol, you know I've got nothing but love for my fellow DVX users, Jared! :) I was simply pointing out that in a situation where you're showing specific relationships between different framerates (especially when the difference between two framerate selections are as little as 2fps), it's pretty much essential that whatever is being shot be moving at a constant speed so that the effect can be accurately analyzed. I thought the article was great and very well explained, I have no complaints about it at all! At the same time, the "subtleness" of the 22fps and 26fps options have been touted on the forums more than once by Barry himself, and I don't think it's being hyper-critical to suggest that the object(s) being filmed be moving at the same rate in order to accurately display the differences.

Maybe for Barry's DVD you can film the second hand moving around a clock or a model train going around a track at a fixed speed.

Of course, there's always the Juggletron 2000... :thumbsup:
 
For a visual reference when I watch a music video (coldplay:fix you) and they are walking and singing in slow motion but sync to the words. What frame speed rate are they shooting at for this look?

I know on the DVX when you switch to 60 its like pop looks like video. So if I select say 48fps than slow it down to 24 will it maintain the look as if it was shot at 24fps, especially when combining clips.
 
How about timelapse?

How about timelapse?

Timelapse will always look smoother with longer shutter speeds.
With film you can exposure one frame for seconds.
I've used to do timelapses with dv with 1/3 sec shutter speed.
Is longest shutter speed in hvx200 really only 1/12 sec?
 
audio from one frame rate to new timebase?

audio from one frame rate to new timebase?

Barry_Green said:
Audio is recorded under all cases, but it is recorded at real-time rates. So if you play the footage back at the same frame rate you recorded it at, the audio will work. In almost all cases the camera ignores the audio for an off-speed clip, but it is recorded and you can make use of it in post if you want to.
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so, how will I export audio recorded at e.g. 60p to be useable on a 30p timebase?
 
Audio doesn't have a framerate. It's recorded at realtime, so it sounds like what it sounded like when you recorded it.

What are you planning on doing? Are you planning on having half-speed slow motion, and you want the audio to play along with it? Obviously the audio would have to be slowed down too, which is a fairly trivial task for any NLE. But it's going to sound like Dory speaking "Whale" in "Finding Nemo."
 
I remember seeing something about the camera playing back 60 FPS in the camera when shot as 24 so you could see the clip in camera slowed down. But as I read this and play with the camera it needs to be played in the edit program to see the slow motion. Is this right?
 
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