F5: New 4K XAVC SONY PXW-Z100 for under 5000 Euro ?

Lenilenapi said:
Crop factor can be so misleading. Which 35mm - full frame still or APS-C/Cine ?
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Nobody uses the term "crop factor" to mean 35 cine; I tried to get people to refer to that as the CCF (Cinema Crop Factor) but didn't get any traction. All camera manufacturers, that I can think of, when they mention "35mm equivalent", do so in terms of comparison against full-frame stills 35mm film.

If they were claiming a 7.2x crop factor off of APS-C/cine, then that would mean the camera has a sensor that's only 3mm wide, and that would be about a... what would that be, maybe a 1/6" sensor? So no, I don't think that's what they meant, they meant the crop as per 35mm stills film, and in that context it can only be, and must be, a 1/3" imaging size.

Either that, or the published focal length of the lens is wrong. Look at an EX1R, it has a 1/2" sensor and a published wide angle equivalence of about 30mm, and its lens is 5.8mm on the wide end. Bigger chips need more telephoto lenses, smaller chips need wider-angle lenses, to deliver the same field of view.

It's not rocket science here, it's just simple math. If the new 4K Sony cameras were legitimately using all of a 1/2.3" sensor, and they deliver a 29.5mm-equivalent field of view, then the lens would HAVE to have a wide-angle focal length of about 5.6mm. There is no other possibility.

So those of you who go to IBC next week and get a look at it, just look at the focal length on the lens. If it says 4.1-82mm, and Sony claims a wide-angle field of view equivalent to 29.5mm, then that's absolute definitive proof that it is using a 1/3" sensor size. If, on the other hand, the lens is market to be 5.6-112mm, then that would be proof that it's using the full 1/2.3" sensor.
 
Note: I'm not questioning whether there's actually a 1/2.3" sensor in there, I'm sure there is. All I'm saying is that from all that can be determined, it's only using the central 1/3" portion of that sensor. And therefore it will deliver the performance of a 1/3" sensor.
 
Thanks everyone now I know how to calculate and found the information in the specs for the FDR-AX1

EDIT: The FDR-AX1 spec says 4.1-82 which is exactly the same as my NX5U.
 
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Barry_Green said:
It's been discussed in other threads. It's fairly obvious, the lens looks to be directly imported from one of their other cameras, the available pixels used (8mpix out of 18.9 total) and the stated crop factor all point to it being a 1/3" imaging area. It can't be anything else.
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Thanks, Barry, for your response.

~Adam
 
A clear listing of specs from a Sony website:

4K (4096 x 2160) 50fps or 60fps shooting
The camcorder provides good sensitivity due to the back-illuminated Exmor™ R CMOS sensor. With 8 million effective pixels, the 1/2.33" sensor captures 4K images at 50fps or 60fps. The inbuilt high-performance G Lens offers maximum shooting flexibility, including a wide angle of 29.5mm (equivalent to 35mm) and 20x powerful optical zoom.

XAVC recording format at 4K 50fps/60fps, 4:22 10-bit at 500/600Mbps, HD at up to 223Mbps
The PXW-Z100 uses Sony’s XAVC recording format first employed in the PMW-F55 CineAlta 4K camera. MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 compression is used for HD (1920 x 1080), QFHD (3840 x 2016) and 4K (4096 x 2160) content. Image sampling is 4:2:2 10-bit, with an intra-frame system that compresses each frame individually at a maximum bit rate of 500Mbps or 600Mbps during 4K 50fps or 60fps recording respectively and 223Mbps during HD 50fps or 60fps recording. The XAVC format is ideal for those looking to implement a high-quality, secure and worry-free workflow.

A free firmware update is planned for the middle of 2014 to support the LongGOP mode for extended 4K recording time and to add support for AVCHD recording.


XQD Memory Card recording
The XQD Memory Card* is a new standard of solid state memory, which was recently defined by several industry leading companies. XQD uses the ultra-fast PCI Express interface and Sony’s unique camera processor to enable stable video recording at 500Mbps or 600Mbps. The PXW-Z100 features two XQD Memory Card slots. Multiple cards can be used in various ways, such as for relay recording. When the first card becomes full, recording continues on the second card without a break.

* XQD cards have a write speed of up to 800Mbps. The use of S Series cards with 180MB/s writing speed is recommended.

HDMI interface for 4K output and 3G HD-SDI interface for HD output
The HDMI interface on the PXW-Z100 can output 4K as a 50fps/60fps signal. When the PXW-Z100 is connected to a Sony 4K-compatible BRAVIA TV, the recorded 4K image can be displayed in 4K 50fps/60fps quality. A future firmware upgrade is planned to provide compatibility with the new HDMI 2.0 standard and enable 4K 50fps/60fps output to a wider range of devices. Other features include a 3G HD-SDI interface that supports output to an SDI of up to HD 60fps. It also supports HD output during 4K recording.
Paint function for more creative freedom

The PXW-Z100’s paint function enables multiple image parameters to be adjusted including gamma curve, black level, skin detail and colour. The range of settings is similar to those in the PMW-F55. Together with other setting options, parameter settings can be recorded as a camera profile onto a memory card. The recorded camera profile can then be used to set the same parameters in another PXW-Z100 to enable the matching of quality and image tones when using a multi-camera setup.
Remote control with WiFi

Focus, zoom, aperture settings and ‘record start/stop’ can be remote controlled using the browser function of a smartphone or tablet.
 
Barry_Green said:
So those of you who go to IBC next week and get a look at it, just look at the focal length on the lens. If it says 4.1-82mm, and Sony claims a wide-angle field of view equivalent to 29.5mm, then that's absolute definitive proof that it is using a 1/3" sensor size. If, on the other hand, the lens is market to be 5.6-112mm, then that would be proof that it's using the full 1/2.3" sensor.
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The promo video above (at about 1:52) shows the lens at 1.6/4.1-82 and here is some GREAT additional info on the camera...

http://www.sonypro-latin.com/corpor...mptyContent/0/text_files/file/MK11076V1_l.pdf

Looks like an awesome camera to me especially since the only other camera that I know of anywhere near this price range that offers 1080p60 and 3g HD-SDI out is the FS700. Now there's a smaller sensor alternative.

Will be nice to see a few reviews of this camera and it's sensitivity compared to other 1/3" and 1/2" cameras.

Does anyone know if when this camera gets the XAVC-S update, will it record 1080p60 (50Mbps) at 4:2:2 10bit? Or will it drop it down to 4:2:0 8bit?
 
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The specs that I have from Sony on the lens indicate 4.1-82mm equivalent to 30-600 on full-frame 35mm, 17:9. 4096x2160

When I saw the camera, I did not look at lens markings.

Ned
 
It did look good. All we saw was some pick up footage shot with pre-release camera fed via HDMI into a 4K monitor. It looked good. There is a place in the market for it. We will know more after IBC and I'll have one to test as soon as they start shipping.

Ned
 
Wow, great specs. If only you could a large-sensor, lensless version for the same price! (Though I suppose that's only a matter of time at this stage).
 
That's the annoying thing Grug. They know what the ideal camera is, and they can build it, they just don't want to because it would wipe out the need for over 3/4 of their range. Sparky.
 
Grug said:
Wow, great specs. If only you could a large-sensor, lensless version for the same price! (Though I suppose that's only a matter of time at this stage).
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I doubt you'll get one at the same price anytime soon. F5, F55, and FS700 are all
'large sensor' versions to one degree or another, so probably not gonna undercut their
own existing line of large sensor 4K cameras right away. I'm sure in the future prices will
go down, but right now, you are looking at FS700 + Odyssey 7Q on the low end for
large sensor 4K.
 
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