New 300 Price "WOW"

Barry_Green said:
Well, yeah, the inability to see it beforehand is indeed infuriating. You'd think a dealer would care enough to help you out -- I can see how it might have been difficult to get a pre-release unit out to your location, but now that there's demo models in the dealer's showrooms, surely someone can help you out...
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It's been three weeks since our last request when the dealer indicated he would have demo units soon.

My e mail of three days ago asking for some update remains unanswered.

Who wants our money?

:)

My serious point is that unless a reasonable demo is available, the company or someone needs to step the plate and provide sample footage that is representative of real world shooting environments.

Any company can showcase a product.

To show all you have to deal with takes an exceptional company. We think Panasonic is that company, but right now all we are looking at is youtube caliber footgage
 
I'm keeping my HPX170 (in part because I wasn't able to find a buyer at the price I was asking for it), <g>. The other reason, while I don't shoot full time, is that I've decided I need both . . . the HPX170 for live sports (mostly beach volleyball) which the 300 doesn't really lend itself to and other times when it's just more advantagous to have something more compact.

I'm headed north in the next few weeks for an extended stay in the NY/NJ area and will make it a point to find an operating demo at ABLE or B&H. I'm more than half convinced already that I need this (the 300) camera but will slow down long enough for further evaluation.

I find the friendly debate(s) here to be useful, as I do the video conversations from ABLE, B&H, and ZACUTO. I'm not looking for a "one size fits all" camera (because I'll be dead before one of those that I can afford comes down the pike) but I'm equally convinced that AT THE PRICE POINT I can live with the disadvantages and benefits of the 300 . . . and am so looking forward to it.

Best.
 
hotchkiss said:
Given the skew that you observed on one hand and the satisfaction of the client(s) on the other, how did you mitigate the skew or otherwise adjust your shooting? Or did the client not notice the skew and/ or just live with it ? All hand held-correct ?

I'm still on the fence with this cam, but getting closer to leaping.

Thanks
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I was just testing the camera which was rented by some friends for the green screen work.
I shot for about 2 hours trying to replicate the kind of work I do, before the camera have to be returned.
It was only set to AVCi 1080 24p since that would have been my settings if I decided to purchase the camera.

My handheld style has been considered good and I'm usually conservative with my movements. Even so we were all able to notice some kind of skew (both vertical and horizontal) on the scenes that have movement on it. I haven't used the EXs a lot so for me it is hard to quantify and compare, but for the kind of work I do most it's not the right gear me.
 
alexdias said:
My handheld style has been considered good and I'm usually conservative with my movements. Even so we were all able to notice some kind of skew (both vertical and horizontal) on the scenes that have movement on it. I haven't used the EXs a lot so for me it is hard to quantify and compare, but for the kind of work I do most it's not the right gear me.
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How on Earth can you get vertical skew?

Horizontal skew comes from the CMOS rolling shutter that moves down the sensor so that different regions of the scene are in different places at when they are captured. No such mechanism for vertical skew exists in CMOS sensors.

Are people starting to see things that aren't there because they're looking too hard?
 
What I call 'vertical' skew is the unusual stretching of vertical lines, maybe it's just the way the horizontal skew works on that dimension. I'm not a technical person.
I've noticed the issue, one time or another, with all CMOS camera I have operated: RED, EX and the referred model.
 
David S. said:
My serious point is that unless a reasonable demo is available, the company or someone needs to step the plate and provide sample footage that is representative of real world shooting environments.

Any company can showcase a product.

To show all you have to deal with takes an exceptional company. We think Panasonic is that company, but right now all we are looking at is youtube caliber footgage
Click to expand...

This was my argument as well, I don't know if you've seen our post, but my servers have hosted Raw P2 footage from the camera, that may help you. It is my small contribution to you guys who, like us, feel its ridiculous that we don't have access to actual footage from this camera other than compressed to hell footage, or footage that we don't know whats done to it. Hope this helps.

alexdias said:
My handheld style has been considered good and I'm usually conservative with my movements. Even so we were all able to notice some kind of skew (both vertical and horizontal) on the scenes that have movement on it.
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This has been our assessment as well... Handheld work is something I have also been considered to be very good at, and even with the completely knowledge of skew, there is no way to avoid that when shooting on shoulder and walking... theres just no way to prevent skew in this situation, thus making the camera pretty much useless to have a shoulder mount in the first place.
 
I shot some test footage hand held while walking, just in the monitor alone the skew was jumping everywhere... Since it wasn't my P2 card I didn't end up saving the footage, but it was played back from the camera and the LCD showed quite a bit of skew even at that small size. I am trying to get my hands on one again, as soon as I am free. I want to do some major testing and post results up on my server like LARS is doing for us right now. This was done at 1080p 24p with stock lens.
 
videomagician said:
Back on topic -

Has the price gone up on AbelCine and SpecComm? Did show a lower price when added to cart.
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We have a new mechanism on our webstore for you to get our pricing. Click on "Email me a better price", submit your email address and we will send you an email with the current price for that particular product.

EDIT: Please keep in mind that the price that is emailed to you is subject to an additional 2% discount if paid with a bank check or bank wire transfer.

Let me know how it works for you.

Sincerely,

Andrew Hoffman
Vice President
Specialized Communications Corp.
20940 Twin Springs Dr.
Smithsburg, MD 21783-1510 USA
800-359-1858 (US)
301-790-0103
Fax: 301-790-0173
andrewh@spec-comm.com
www.spec-comm.com
www.twitter.com/speccomm
 
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Jon S said:
How on Earth can you get vertical skew?

Horizontal skew comes from the CMOS rolling shutter that moves down the sensor so that different regions of the scene are in different places at when they are captured. No such mechanism for vertical skew exists in CMOS sensors.

Are people starting to see things that aren't there because they're looking too hard?
Click to expand...

Someone must have been slipping sugar pills into drinks. :)

I'm sure that if there wasn't a single mention of horizontal skew on this camera, very few users would have even noticed it. I have to try to get the skew to appear, and when it does, it's footage that I would NEVER sell or expect a client to pay for.

Sincerely,

Andrew Hoffman
Vice President
Specialized Communications Corp.
20940 Twin Springs Dr.
Smithsburg, MD 21783-1510 USA
800-359-1858 (US)
301-790-0103
Fax: 301-790-0173
andrewh@spec-comm.com
www.spec-comm.com
www.twitter.com/speccomm
 
there is a way to get this skew issue, it can actually be tested for, and shown. We have test footage from a RED camera that showed the skew. So it IS possible, its just VERY un-noticeable. ( i know that word doesn't exist but I wanna use it anyway haha)
 
Giuseppe Pugliese said:
there is a way to get this skew issue, it can actually be tested for, and shown. We have test footage from a RED camera that showed the skew. So it IS possible, its just VERY un-noticeable. ( i know that word doesn't exist but I wanna use it anyway haha)
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Yes. I could get the skew as well. I had to zoom in completely and move the camera side to side pretty fast to get the skew. Not usable in footage, skewing or not.

Andrew
 
Spec-Comm said:
Yes. I could get the skew as well. I had to zoom in completely and move the camera side to side pretty fast to get the skew. Not usable in footage, skewing or not.

Andrew
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vertical skew is what I was referring to, its the motion up and down, again its very hard to noticed this at all, but it is possible. Just something thats not a worry to anyone using this camera in a normal situation. Side to Side horizontal skew is still always an issue with any cmos camera except for RED.
 
One other thing about our web store pricing. The price that gets emailed to you is also subject to an additional 2% discount if paid with a bank check or bank wire transfer. This is the case with all of our store items.

Just a reminder.

Andrew Hoffman
 
I am considering the 300 over the 200A and have been lerking around the forum trying to pick up solid info that will tilt me to one side or the other. However, I find that I am becoming increasingly confused by the discussions. The main issue that seem to consistanly pop up, with regards to the 300, is the "Skew" issue. Comments are being made about what the 300 is NOT good for, filming wise. So, what is the camera good for? I hear that the Networks have embraced this camera yet, based upon people's comments regarding skew, isn't ENG more apt to run into situations that produce skew issues? Run and Gun, quick camera movements, etc? Yet, by what I hear, they love this camera, however, the film making folks, who for the most part, in my mind, typically shoot, locked down, slow pans & tilts, take exception to this camera. Before you totally nuke me as a moron, I am a newbie just trying to ensure that I gather enough info to make a truly informed choice. The type of filming I would like to do with the camera is, documentary, wildlife / natural history, Animal Planet, National Geo type stuff. I might allow myself to get talked into a narrative or two, as well. I look forward to your comments! :dankk2:

Doc
 
Hi,

If you want to see the camera moving and traking Go-Karts in 1080P/24 AVC-Intra, send me a private message, I will give you a link for download of a 1080P/24.

Best,

jan
 
I took the "gokarts" movie (MPEG4) to an apple shop to look at it on the latest MBP 17 inch notebook (full hd screen) because my old pc is not able to run it in a smooth way (my graphic card sucks). I believe the movie was ONLY intended to show that skew is a non issue if you handle the HPX 300 the right way right ? and I have to agree that the skew was not visible to me. So am I also right that this footage should not be judged on resolution because it is not native footage any more but further compressed. In other words native it is better resolution wise? I was a little dissappointed how the MBP handled this file because the movie did not ran completely smoothly (a little shacky but not so bad as on my pc, therefore it was also difficult the judge skew but I think it was ok) or is this always the case in 24p mode???
 
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