Needing Mic Advice

C

Chav

New member
Hey.

So I've been on this site for a while, only posted once though. My last post forever ago was regarding audio for my Canon Vixia Hf200. Since I posted in the Canon section I didn't get the results I was looking for. Now I decided to post again here in the audio section.

As I stated, I have a Canon Vixia HF200 and I am looking to buy some audio equipment for short films mostly. I did some research and I couldn't find any results or quality tests that make me want to buy any particular mic.

My budget, around $500 simply because I don't want to spend all the money I have on one microphone. I am not really interested in lavs because they cost a lot, but feel free to suggest if you know of one that's a real bang for your buck. I was thinking of a shotgun mic that I can boom, by the way only suggest cheap but efficient booms as I could just make one for around 15 dollars.

So, if anyone can help please let me know. Lastly, I am not interested in hiring people and getting rid of my camera is not a viable solution.


Too long, didn't read?

Need a mic for my Canon Vixia HF200
$500 budget.
 
What are you shooting? Location/Set?

Given your budget, the Rode NTG-2 for outdoors is probably your best bet. Octava MC-012/hyper cap for indoors.
Street price for either of these mics used is right at $150.00
Outdoors will require a fuzzy and possibly even a blimp. Figure $200 minimum for a fuzzy and shock mount. A blimp rig will start around $400.
Add cables and accurate headphones and I don't see how you'll get there for $500. And the above list is a bare bones low ball that will get you passible audio but by no means, top shelf audio quality.

Have you considered hiring a location sound recordist who supplies their own gear? You'll get tens of thousands of dollars worth of gear ands an operator who knows how to operate it in a way that will optimized the recorded sound.


Chav said:
Hey.

So I've been on this site for a while, only posted once though. My last post forever ago was regarding audio for my Canon Vixia Hf200. Since I posted in the Canon section I didn't get the results I was looking for. Now I decided to post again here in the audio section.

As I stated, I have a Canon Vixia HF200 and I am looking to buy some audio equipment for short films mostly. I did some research and I couldn't find any results or quality tests that make me want to buy any particular mic.

My budget, around $500 simply because I don't want to spend all the money I have on one microphone. I am not really interested in lavs because they cost a lot, but feel free to suggest if you know of one that's a real bang for your buck. I was thinking of a shotgun mic that I can boom, by the way only suggest cheap but efficient booms as I could just make one for around 15 dollars.

So, if anyone can help please let me know. Lastly, I am not interested in hiring people and getting rid of my camera is not a viable solution.


Too long, didn't read?

Need a mic for my Canon Vixia HF200
$500 budget.
Click to expand...
 
I'm 16 and by no means am I interested in hiring anybody, nor do I expect professional quality films.

I checked out the NTG-2 and it's around $360?

Amazon was $250 or so, I am wondering where you are finding it for $150.

Unless by street price you mean someone selling it, which I doubt I'll be able to find given the fact that I'm in Canada and I don't know anybody that's in to film making.

I think I'll end up looking for the Rode, as I have no need nor money at the moment for a second mic.
 
Chav said:
I'm 16 and by no means am I interested in hiring anybody, nor do I expect professional quality films.

I checked out the NTG-2 and it's around $360?

Amazon was $250 or so, I am wondering where you are finding it for $150.

Unless by street price you mean someone selling it, which I doubt I'll be able to find given the fact that I'm in Canada and I don't know anybody that's in to film making.

I think I'll end up looking for the Rode, as I have no need nor money at the moment for a second mic.
Click to expand...

If you shoot BOTH indoors and outside, you'll need a second mic. There is no such thing as 'one size fits all.' Shotguns are good outdoors but not so good indoors where they can sound peculiar. Indoors you need a hyper for best results. Unless you're shooting exclusively in one type of location, you'll need both to cover your bases. There are a few 'guns that can sound okay inside but they're all well over your budget.
 
gpforet said:
What are you shooting? Location/Set?

Given your budget, the Rode NTG-2 for outdoors is probably your best bet. Octava MC-012/hyper cap for indoors.
Street price for either of these mics used is right at $150.00
Outdoors will require a fuzzy and possibly even a blimp. Figure $200 minimum for a fuzzy and shock mount. A blimp rig will start around $400.
Add cables and accurate headphones and I don't see how you'll get there for $500. And the above list is a bare bones low ball that will get you passible audio but by no means, top shelf audio quality.

Have you considered hiring a location sound recordist who supplies their own gear? You'll get tens of thousands of dollars worth of gear ands an operator who knows how to operate it in a way that will optimized the recorded sound.
Click to expand...

You left out the fact that his cam doesn't support XLR inputs or phantom power.

I don't own one, but a common suggestion for the OP would be a Rode Video Mic.

Grant
 
Right you are, my mistake. I take it the Rode Video mic terminates in an 1/8" plug. Is this high impedance, and is there a problem with EMI when using the mic with a cable long enough to hang it on a boom pole?

ggrantly said:
You left out the fact that his cam doesn't support XLR inputs or phantom power.

I don't own one, but a common suggestion for the OP would be a Rode Video Mic.

Grant
Click to expand...
 
I couldn't say regarding interference, but they are commonly used in the 1/8" plug crowd. I am sure the audio brain-trust could address the cabling - interference issue. I did learn recently that the Rode VM has an internal battery and isn't a dynamic mic. (Thanks Mr Crowley)

Grant
 
So, the mics suggested are not compatible with my mic at all?
I'm quite new to audio, I've heard about the Rode Video Mic and I from what I've seen it's kind of bad. Also, I've looked into the Azden NG-2 I believe it's called.
Can someone tell me if that will work on my camera?

Also the phantom power thing, I don't really know what that is but I've heard I could buy a special shoe for my camera, maybe that's it.
 
Young man, you need to do some things to help yourself here. Read the stickies at the top of the page, try some searches. Tell us what you intend to do; what kind of production you are doing.

In a very simplified explanation: there are two classes of mics. Condenser type mics need (phantom) power which your camera doesn't supply. Dynamic mics don't need power and will work with your cam directly but are very limiting. For the most part, condenser mics are better. Shotgun and condenser cardioid are examples of condenser mics.

You can support phantom powered condenser type mics if you buy a box (Juiced Link or Beachtek) that will supply the power and give you better audio control. But buying both a box and a condenser mic is out of your stated budget especially after you buy a mount, wind protection, boom pole, cables, headphones, etc.

There are a couple of shotgun mics that have battery power, the AT897 and the Rode NTG2. Maybe someone else can help here, but those would probably work with the right cable adapters. Please confirm that statement.

One other option that would be close to your budget and produce better sound:
Purchase a Zoom H4 or similar small recorder and add an inexpensive or used condenser mic to go with it. Several of the small recorders do supply phantom power. I am nearly certain that this will give you better audio than your cam will record, but you will have to import it into your editor and synch it up later. You could do this for $500, but you will still need the accessories listed above, which again busts your budget.

The VM is no end all, but is a hybrid mic that is self powered, will allow you to buy some accessories, and stay in budget.

Grant
 
Alright

Alright

Alright so, I'll have to go to my nearest retailer and ask some questions.

The NGT-2 is the one I was thinking of, which could be powered by a triple A battery, so I'll look in to that for sure.

Truthfully, I have about $1000 to spend, I just didn't figure I'd need that much for Audio. A solution capped around $700 is something for me to consider, I suppose.


As far as reading the stickies, I have and I figure I'll just copy and paste the questions I'm supposed to answer.


1. What is the budget that we are working with (either immediately or over the next few months)
$700 max.

2. What type of films are you doing (short dramatic films, feature dramatic, documentary, interviews)
A variety of everything, truthfully I want to film media in general, everything from short films to interviews and everything in between.

3. Are your locations PRIMARILY interiors or exteriors?
A combination of both, but outside noise is the most worried about, as in the last short film, wind destroyed the entire thing.

4. Will you be shooting outside at all with sound?
Yes, outside and inside.

5. What level of experience do you have with sound?
Little to none.

6. What is the outlet you are hoping to have with the projects (DVD release for profit, web distribution, theatrical)
Web distribution

7. Is this purchase for a specific project or are you looking to purchase a kit for general future projects?
General future projects.

8. Why do you feel that it is beneficial for you to buy sound gear versus hiring a professional (or networking for free with a professional) to do your audio?
Hiring someone isn't even an option, as I'm not looking for a professional job, experience is what I'm looking for.

9. Will you have a dedicated person to run sound (even a friend to hold a boompole)?
Yes, my group has a person who's willing to do audio.

10. Do you notice the difference between good sound and poor sound when you are watching films?
Absolutely, the last film we made was terrible for audio and I was quite disappointed, we didn't have enough time to re-shoot with less wind, and none of us want it to happen again.
 
Last edited:
Chav...now we're talkin.

NTG-2 is probably the best sounding choice for self powered. It will be a compromise indoors, but you have to start somewhere. The AT897 will save you some money, but probably isn't as good (I have one). Double check that the NTG2 will work with the input on your Canon. I don't know what type of gain control you have on the Canon, so make sure you have a way to control.

Get something for wind protection, though not as good as a blimp, there are several slide on types for $60-$80. Add a decent suspension for another $50-$75. You will probably want a boom pole. A painters pole will work to start. But that is only a start. Does the Canon have a headphone jack? You will want to monitor your sound at all times. If you don't have a jack, you are headed towards a Beachtek or Juiced-Link sooner than later.

Since your budget has improved, do consider the external recorder, especially if you have extra bodies for audio. For example the Tascam DR100 sells for about $300 and has some pretty great features and has a decent gain control. It will record way better sound then your cam guaranteed, and it will supply phantom power to your external mic, and a headphone jack. It also has onboard mics which aren't great but useful.

Last thought. With the cam you have, you are in about the same boat as the DSLR crowd. Good image IQ, sound; not so much. Most anything you read about DSLR audio, will apply to you. Mostly, they do off cam audio like I just described.

And a last, last thought: Be a little careful when dealing with salespeople. Not all, but many do not have great knowledge or your best interest at heart.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...100_DR_100_Professional_Portable_Digital.html

Note they have a used DR100 for $225. This is a very reputable company.

Grant
 
Adding a note to ggrantly, do tke a look at Juicedlink. You need some way to convert most pro mic's XLR outputs to a 1/8 inch stereo plug that will go to your camera's external mic jack. Th
 
Ah, finally the help I was looking for. I think my best bet is to buy the NTG-2, go for a ... fuzzy cover, I don't the actual term but I'm sure you know what I mean, and then go for the DR100.

Regarding the JuicedLink, I don't understand what it is completely, an amplifier of sorts?
That's what the video on their website is giving me the idea of.
 
The Juicedkink is an adaptor for XLR balanced mics for cameras (or recording devices) with a 3.5mm mic input. It also has a 'high' quality preamp.

If you're happy with quality of your camera audio, you can terminate the balanced signal with an impedance matching transformer (about $20).

Does your camera have manual gain control and headphone out? If not, you should consider a sound recorder.
 
Chav said:
Ah, finally the help I was looking for. I think my best bet is to buy the NTG-2, go for a ... fuzzy cover, I don't the actual term but I'm sure you know what I mean, and then go for the DR100.

Regarding the JuicedLink, I don't understand what it is completely, an amplifier of sorts?
That's what the video on their website is giving me the idea of.
Click to expand...

The fuzzy cover is called a 'dead cat' ... Rode calls their's a 'dead wombat.'

The Juiced link has several functions. First and foremost is take the mono XLR balanced output from most professional grade mics and convert it into the 3.5mm unbalanced stereo plug required to plug into most consumer camcorder's external mic jacks. It has the necessary circuits to do this balanced->unbalanced conversion correctly, something a simple adapter cable usually doesn't do. You can connect one or several mics at once, the exact number depending on the model. Second it allows you to choose whether the mics go to the left, right, or both channels in the video and to what degree they are mixed tofgether. Depending on model it can supply the 'phantom power' that condensor mics need to operate (many, if not most, mics do not have internal batteries (the NTG-2 does) and need an external power source which your camera does not provide). And very important, your camera only provides a very crude audio level control that is impossible to adjust as you're actually filming ... the Juiced provides a level control for each mic channel that is readily accessible on the front panel knobs.

A kit like this http://www.trewaudio.ca/store/product.php?productid=764&cat=66&page=1 with everything except the cables and Juiced is a good way to get started.
 
I've been doing some mic research, too. For budget mics, you might want to check out MXL and CAD. They both make condenser (cardioid and shotgun) mics that are much cheaper than the Rodes and only slightly inferior on paper. CAD has a GXL series that ranges from $50 to $150 and look like they would make good starter mics.
 
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