Need some gear recommendations for getting started with video

[AlexNOR]

Hi guys

I'm currently in the process of putting together a purchase plan for an affordable video kit, and in that regard I'm looking for some gear tips and recommendations.

First, a little bit about me: I have about 4-5 years photography experience which started out as a hobby and ended up beeing something to bring in some coin on the side. Gear wise I only have experience with Canon DSLR's and Canon glass, like the 60D, 7D, 1D Mark III, 5D Mark III and a whole lot of L series lenses. While I had the 5D mark III and the 60D I did try a little bit of video, but never made anything out of it as I was always more comfortable and confident shooting stills. Due to some life changing events I was forced to sell all my gear almsot 1,5 years ago, and it's been about as long since I last did any serious photography.

Now I'm ready to slowly start up again, but this time I want to focus more on video, but not excluding photography completely. Please note that this will be on a hobby level to start with, and with time it may or may not become something for me to do on the side next to my normal day job. I also have a lot tighter budget this time, so no 5D mark III for me to play with.

Here's a list of what I so far intend to purchase and in what order. I'm starting from scratch here, except for the first item on the list which I already purchased due to a good deal and an ending auction:

0: Nikon AI-S 35-70mm f/3.5 Lens (already purchased)
I read a thread here on DVXuser about 24-70 alternatives for Nikon and this sounded to be a gem. There was a good deal for it on eBay so I jumped on the horse. Hope I didn't bite the bullet on this, but if I did it wasn't too much money. I want to concentrate my glass around older manual lenses which gives me a good focus throw and an aperture ring on the lens.

0.1: ND filter (already own 2-stop ND filter)
I still have left a 2 stop 77mm ND filter from my photo days. I know a proper variable ND is more versitile for video, but I don't have the budget for that at the moment. I think some step-down rings for this one may be the best option at this point.

0.2: Post processing
I just got the full version of Hit Film 2 Express for free through their online promition. I also have access to Premiere Pro CS5.5. Don't think I'll need anything besides that to start with?

1: Nikon D5300 w/18-55 Kit*
Was initially looking at the 70D (or a used 60D, but they are wastly overpriced here in Norway for some reason). However I came to read about the D5300 and it sounds like a better camera for me. Mainly because I don't have to worry about aliasing and moire (I'll take that over auto focus any day). 1080p60 is a plus, and it also has clean HDMI out if I'm not mistaken(?) which will leave the option open to add a Ninja 2 in the future if I will ever need to. Getting the Kit because it's actually cheaper then the body alone for some reason, it will also give me the option of covering wide angle untill I find another proper manual lens for that.
*with this purchase also comes an extra battery and approx 64-128mb of storage

2: A proper tripod and fluid head
I have understood that getting a proper tripod/fluid head is one of the best investments I can do when getting into video, so I have decided to dedicate a substational (in my mind, not general video terms) bit of my initial budget for this. So far the best option I've found is the Benro S8 A3573F kit (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1026241-REG/benro_a373fhs8_s8_video_tripod_kit.html). This is stretching it, and I can not go any more expencive then this. But I know nothing about tripods and fluid heads, are there any better more reasonably priced options out there? I don't want an S6 simply because it doesn't have (adjustable) pan drag. I also want to stick with a set of sticks of this form so I can get low down and set up easily in uneven terrain (I'll be shooting off-road driving in the woods among other things).

3: A wide angle manual lens
I need something wider then 35mm that will give me proper manual control over the kit lens I get with the D5300. I have looked at the Nikon AI-S 14mm f3.5 and f4, but these are a bit too expencive. Any recommendations for a wider manual lens option, zoom or prime? Doesn't need to be the fastest lens.

4: A fast 24/28/50mm prime
Thinking of something like the 50 1.8D (I actually owned this before and used it on my Canon with an adapter), but an older model with a better focus throw is preferred. A wider then 50mm option is also desirable. Any recommendations?

5: Follow focus
From what I can find by searching on the net the Edelkrone Focus ONE is the best low-price follow focus, but again I may be wrong. Note that I'm also single operator, so no need for something fancy for a 2nd focus puller. I have a set of 15mm rods and a way to fix it to the camera.

-

From here on I won't really know untill I start using my gear and seeing what I would like to invest in. Step 1-3 will be my initial purchase. Step 4 may follow shortly and 5 whenver I can afford it, these two steps may also be interchanged.

You may also note that I haven't even thouched the idéa of audio yet, but that's to come later. I'll be focusing on capturing pleasing and beautiful moving imagery now to begin with. If I should need to capture some ambient or a single persons voice I have the really reasonably priced option of using my iPhone, and maybe add something like a Rode phone mic or lavalier to that.

Right now my focus is to get started by spending my money as wisely as possibly, and I'm hoping the more experienced people here on DVXuser may help me come to the right decision in regards to which gear would be best suited for me and my budget.


- Alex

 

[pulpfiction007]

I have the D5200, excellent camera...but I do a lot of stills. It does do very good video, BUT...if you are primarily doing video, I would suggest the Panasonic GH3. The reason, is that you get a working view finder, very good battery life, better video codec options, better controls on the body for making settings, it's weather sealed, you can mount pretty much any lens...including Nikon glass (with adapter of course) time code, and the GH series are just flat out easier to use for video.

Food for thought.

 

[Samuel H]

In general it sounds pretty reasonable

* Tripod: that one is way too expensive compared to the rest of your kit. Good thing about tripods is: they'll last you a lifetime if you buy a good one. Buy good, buy once. But still, you may want to consider something like the WF717 or its bigger brother, the EI-7060 (that's the one I have)

* wide angle: vintage ultra wide angles (21mm and below) are usually pretty soft; consider the Samyang 14mm f/2.8

* 35mm lens: again samyang, in this case the 35mm f/1.4; because you want one with manual controls, and you want a followfocus, so you probably want to look for the cine version (for this one and the 14mm)

 

[AlexNOR]

I have the D5200, excellent camera...but I do a lot of stills. It does do very good video, BUT...if you are primarily doing video, I would suggest the Panasonic GH3. The reason, is that you get a working view finder, very good battery life, better video codec options, better controls on the body for making settings, it's weather sealed, you can mount pretty much any lens...including Nikon glass (with adapter of course) time code, and the GH series are just flat out easier to use for video.

Food for thought.

The thought of a GH3 did pass me by, but I didn't dive too deep into it as I've never touched anything mirrorless or with a 4/3 sensor. I did read a few GH3 vs D5300 threads, one of which is here on DVXuser.com. What I got out of it is that the image quality and DR from these cameras are pretty similar, but with the GH3 beeing a tad sharper and the D5300 having less noise and better low light capability. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Here's why I'm sceptical to the GH3. Remember this is from someone with no experience with m4/3 cameras at all and these are simply my observations from reading online, so I'm probably wrong on many points. Feel free to correct me:
- Sensor size and 2x crop factor. I have a hard time finding some good affordable options for going wider. I do prefere to buy glass that can be used on super35mm sized sensors so I can have the option open for a Canon Cinema camera in the future without having to reinvest in glass. In tests I've seen also that the GH3 has a lot more noise then the D5300.
- Low light performance. I don't really know anything about how far you can push the GH3 on the high ISO's, but the expect the D5300 to be quite a bit better at this. Do you know how these compare?
- Aliasing and Moire, does the GH3 even have this? It's kind of a deal breaker to me, hence why I'm prefering the D5300 over any Canon brand choice which I am familiar with from before.

But to counter the above there are several things I do like about the GH3 aswell, first of all it simply beeing in general a camera angeled more towards the video side. The viewfinder is a big plus, it has several customizeable buttons, better codec (will the 72mbps codec give me that much more then the D5300 codec), better battery life then D5300(?). And probably a whole lot more that I don't even know about...

I'm rambling a lot here but I'm trying to make a sound decision, I don't want to think back in a month or two and regret my purchase. Do you have personal experience with the GH3 vs your D5200, if so are there any significant pro's and cons for both of these cameras?

Any recommended adapters by the way, for Canon EF to m4/3 and Nikon to m4/3?

 

[AlexNOR]

In general it sounds pretty reasonable

* Tripod: that one is way too expensive compared to the rest of your kit. Good thing about tripods is: they'll last you a lifetime if you buy a good one. Buy good, buy once. But still, you may want to consider something like the WF717 or its bigger brother, the EI-7060 (that's the one I have)

* wide angle: vintage ultra wide angles (21mm and below) are usually pretty soft; consider the Samyang 14mm f/2.8

* 35mm lens: again samyang, in this case the 35mm f/1.4; because you want one with manual controls, and you want a followfocus, so you probably want to look for the cine version (for this one and the 14mm)

Cheers for the heads up on the vintage uwa. I didn't even have in mind that these might be soft. Looks like the Samyang you recommend will be the best option. The Cine versions with the built in gears and de-clicked apertures certanly do sound tempting.

Hehe, regarding the tripod it was sort of intentionally the most expencive item. I do like the idea of buying once as my past experiences from the photo world with buying cheap has always ended up costing me more in the long run. Do you have any experience with the WF717 tripod? Unfortunately the EI-7060 (from what I can find on google) have the type of legs I don't want (I like the single legs that can spread out very low). The price of the WF717 does tempt me, but at the same time it sounds a bit too good to be true (for a quality item that will last). I read about the 717 head and it has some good reviews, but I also see that some say the fluid in the newer ones are different and not so good. Do you know anything about that?

 

[pulpfiction007]

As far as the GH3 - The 2x crop factor only comes into play against a full frame sensor such as the 5D Mark3 and only in the photo aspect ratio. In widescreen 1080P video, it's surprising how close the GH3 is to super 35. Not only that, Slap a meta bones speed booster on it and you'll get faster apertures and a wider fov from your lenses....you'll actually be wider than S35.
The biggest difference to me between using the GH cameras and the Nikon bodies, is that the GH series feels made for video, it all works very seamlessly. People can argue til the cows come home about IQ and neither would be right or wrong...they are both extremely capable. But as far as usability, I have always preferred Nikon for photos with a bit of specialized video and the GH for a video centered/photo hybrid.

But....if you go D5300 now, you could skip the GH3, save a bit of money on the body shoot for a while with it, then when the GH4 comes out go for that. It is sounding like the best DSLR/mirrorless to date for video - on Friday we should see if it's as impressive as it is sounding so far.

 

[Samuel H]

* UWAs and zooms are very complex lenses, and they benefit a lot from computer design, that's why vintage can't even come close to modern in that case, whereas a 50mm vintage can be a lot better than modern counterparts of similar price

* I have a WF717 head on my slider, it's not bad at all. Pretty solid build, and motion similar to that of my 7060. No idea about the single-leg... um... legs. Or about the fluid update.

* I definitely prefer the D5300 to the GH3, but it's a matter of preference: I'm a DR nut, not a resolution nut. The D5300 has a lot more DR, the GH3 has better resolution.

* Adapters: the gold standard is fotodiox pro, leitax, metabones, etc. But they're expensive. I've used plenty of cheap adapters from ebay, and some of them are just as good as intermediate ones (non-pro fotodiox). Just be ready to throw it away if it looks like it could break (particularly nikon-to-canon ones: if the retainer seems flimsy, it may break, and then it will be VERY difficult to take it away). Also: the speedbooster turns the GH3 (2x crop) into S35 (1.42x), the D5300 is APS-C (1.52x). So they're basically even here, except the SB is another $400 for the GH3 option.

 

[c3hammer]

I've switched gears in the last year completely. I've moved to the Panasonic G6 because it has the best features for the type of filming I do. In the end of the day nearly every cam out these days has spectacular image quality right out of the box. This one just happens to let me get the highest quality content available at any price. Your read that right, there is no camera at any price that can capture images in this quality at the same distances from the subject.

For my long range action sports and wildlife type work the Extended Tele Crop (ETC) of the Panasonic G6, GM1, GX7, GH2 and GH3 or the 3x zoom crop of the Canon T3i and 70D are the only camera's that can do this. From there the Panasonic G6 and GX7 are the only ones that have 1080-60p in ETC mode and focus peaking for manual lenses.

This combination in a package so tiny and light weight makes it untouchable for what I prefer to shoot. My total kit with the G6 including tripod, fluid head, jib pole stabilizer, three lenses and GoPro H3B is under 7 lbs. It covers a focal range of 25 - 1500mm equivalent all at 1080-60p. The G6 and an Olympus 17mm f/1.8 are an incredibly cinematic combo that can't be touched within hundreds and hundreds of dollars more in the Canon, Nikon or Sony lineups.

I started in the dslr world with a Canon T3i as it was the first cam readily available with the 3x zoom crop function for video. I went down the whole road of Canon lenses and finally gave up after trying the G6. The image is just that much better with an unmatchable feature set. Add that it's kit weight is half that of the Canon or Nikon's makes it all that much more appealing when being hauled up to 10,000' elevation

Obviously your needs maybe very different, but some of these new tiny Panasonics pack an incredible punch visually and are much less stressful on the billfold.

Cheers,
Pete
www.vimeo.com/petecarney

 

[AlexNOR]

Thanks guys

I always think full frame when I look at the focal lenghts of lenses, so that's why I'm reacting to the 2x crop. Coming from shooting a 5D III for over a year kind of got me used to that, hehe! I am only sceptical because it is unfamiliar to me. The Speed booster sounds interesting though, I will have to take a closer look at that for sure. The $550 equivialent it is going to cost me here in Norway is a little bit off putting though since the price of the GH3 (body only) is already more then 40% higher than the D5300 kit. And I still need to purchase at least one photo lens with autofocus for those days.

Waiting for the GH4(K) also sounds interesting. If the announcement is anyday soon I can put off purchasing for a few days to see if they have a date for availability, and base my descision on that.

Honestly I'm thorn between the GH3 and the D5300. From a price point I really do like the Nikon as they have some good deals going for that right now. But I can't seem to figure out of the GH3 is worth the extra money to me, and I guess that's what it really comes down to. And now the G6 is back into the mix also.

c3hammer, we do indeed have different needs, but I really appreciate your input. I have looked at the G6 before, but sort of put it aside in favour of the GH3. Did you consider the GH3 when you made your choice, and did it come down to the 1080-60p ETC mode in the G6? Another plus for the G6 is the focus peaking ofcourse, but that's not cruical to me. Can any of these bodies (GH3 and G6) display a zoomed view for focus check while recording, or is that pre-record only like most cameras?

You also mention the Olympus 17mm f/1.8, am I right to understand that this will fit directly on a panasonic camera without any adapter? Coupled with the Nikon 35-70 I already have on the way this could be a good alternative for a wider view, and I think I could make good use of these two lenses only. How is the focus ring on the Olympus lens for manual focus, do they use a fly-by-wire system like Panasonic, or is it a proper focus ring?

Regarding the tripod I'm going to have to think about that. I really do wan't to buy something that can outlast my other gear, and therefore I'm ready to put more money into this. I may just purchase something like the Velbon PH-368 fluid head (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/152289-REG/Velbon_PH_368_PH_368_2_Way_Panhead.html) off of eBay and use it on my photo tripod legs untill I can purchase the Benro. It should work OK for a light camera setup from the reveiws I've seen.

*Edit: Another thing about adapters, is this the one i need to get to put my Nikon lens on a GH3 or G6: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/743378-REG/Vello_LA_MFT_NAF_Micro_4_3_To_Nikon.html ?

 

[Michael Carter]

I gotta say, the Fotga follow focus - the new one with adjustable damping and dual stops - is freaking amazing for under 200 bucks. Just throw out the rubber ring it comes with and get some real gears.

 

[c3hammer]

...Did you consider the GH3 when you made your choice, and did it come down to the 1080-60p ETC mode in the G6?

Definitely wanted 1080-60p in ETC. The GH3 is also a lot heavier.

...Another plus for the G6 is the focus peaking ofcourse, but that's not cruical to me. Can any of these bodies (GH3 and G6) display a zoomed view for focus check while recording, or is that pre-record only like most cameras?

Peaking is very important to me for stabilizer work. You can see what is in focus while on the move with peaking on the screen to a certain extent and it really helps you keep your distance to the subject. The zoom display only works before starting your recording as far as I can tell. They have another function for manual focus that only zooms a rectangle in the middle of the screen, but I found that to be impossible to use while recording.

...You also mention the Olympus 17mm f/1.8, am I right to understand that this will fit directly on a panasonic camera without any adapter? Coupled with the Nikon 35-70 I already have on the way this could be a good alternative for a wider view, and I think I could make good use of these two lenses only. How is the focus ring on the Olympus lens for manual focus, do they use a fly-by-wire system like Panasonic, or is it a proper focus ring?

I use a 17mm, 12-44 kit lens and a 100-300mm most of the time. For crazy long stuff I have a 600mm Nikkor AIS ED that gives an equivalent focal length of 3000mm. Totally an amazing tool with the G6. The Olympus M.Zuiko lenses are all m4/3 compatible. They all work incredibly well on the Panasonic G series cams. The focus ring is mechanical and is exceptional !!! The 12mm and 17mm lenses from Olympus have a focus ring that pulls back for manual and push forward to be auto. The Panasonic lenses, the new 25mm and up from Olympus don't have that feature unfortunately. The 17mm is a very small lens and it is difficult to pull focus while recording due to the ring being so close to the camera body. Could be an interesting option to have a follow focus on it.

...*Edit: Another thing about adapters, is this the one i need to get to put my Nikon lens on a GH3 or G6: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/743378-REG/Vello_LA_MFT_NAF_Micro_4_3_To_Nikon.html ?

I just use the cheap Fotodiox F to m43 adaptors you can get on Ebay. I have one F to m43 for the 600mm and it works great. I also have quite a few Olympus OM Zuiko lenses from my photo days in the 80's and run the Fotodiox OM to m43 adaptors on all of them. They seem to be quite good for about $20. No experience with any of the others.

Any way you slice it the new stuff is going to be fun. Pick something and get to filming

Cheers,
Pete

 

[Samuel H]

* the GH4 is here, it looks great (you can use it to record 4K 10-bit 422), but no mention of DR so far, and that's the Achilles heel for the GH3, so, jury still out on this one

* you can also buy the WF717 head and use it with your current legs, I haven't used that velbon but it doesn't look as good

* I also use cheaper adapters from ebay, $45 is already getting close to Fotodiox Pro territory

 

[AlexNOR]

I gotta say, the Fotga follow focus - the new one with adjustable damping and dual stops - is freaking amazing for under 200 bucks. Just throw out the rubber ring it comes with and get some real gears.

Thanks for the tip! I checked it out, and for the price point it looks VERY tempting. If it's as good as they say I might aswell go for it over the Edelkrone. But I have to do some more research first and watch some reviews. One think that's crucial for me is the ability to put the gear that pairs up with the lens on both sides, so I can attach the follow focus to rails above the camera and still have it work with lenses even if the focus ring is close to the body.

Do you have any recommendations for some "real gears" that's not too pricey and preferably ebay available?

Definitely wanted 1080-60p in ETC. The GH3 is also a lot heavier.

Peaking is very important to me for stabilizer work. You can see what is in focus while on the move with peaking on the screen to a certain extent and it really helps you keep your distance to the subject. The zoom display only works before starting your recording as far as I can tell. They have another function for manual focus that only zooms a rectangle in the middle of the screen, but I found that to be impossible to use while recording.

I use a 17mm, 12-44 kit lens and a 100-300mm most of the time. For crazy long stuff I have a 600mm Nikkor AIS ED that gives an equivalent focal length of 3000mm. Totally an amazing tool with the G6. The Olympus M.Zuiko lenses are all m4/3 compatible. They all work incredibly well on the Panasonic G series cams. The focus ring is mechanical and is exceptional !!! The 12mm and 17mm lenses from Olympus have a focus ring that pulls back for manual and push forward to be auto. The Panasonic lenses, the new 25mm and up from Olympus don't have that feature unfortunately. The 17mm is a very small lens and it is difficult to pull focus while recording due to the ring being so close to the camera body. Could be an interesting option to have a follow focus on it.

I just use the cheap Fotodiox F to m43 adaptors you can get on Ebay. I have one F to m43 for the 600mm and it works great. I also have quite a few Olympus OM Zuiko lenses from my photo days in the 80's and run the Fotodiox OM to m43 adaptors on all of them. They seem to be quite good for about $20. No experience with any of the others.

Any way you slice it the new stuff is going to be fun. Pick something and get to filming

Cheers,
Pete

Thanks Pete. I'll definetly go for the 17mm Olympus then if I go with the GH3. What brand 100-300 do you use, and how do you like it? Nice to know in case I find myself in a situation where I need to shoot very long (we have some base jump events in my area on the late summer that I might end up shooting). For everything else the GH3 also have a ECT mode, and since i will shoot 24p most of the time it won't be an issue.

* the GH4 is here, it looks great (you can use it to record 4K 10-bit 422), but no mention of DR so far, and that's the Achilles heel for the GH3, so, jury still out on this one

* you can also buy the WF717 head and use it with your current legs, I haven't used that velbon but it doesn't look as good

* I also use cheaper adapters from ebay, $45 is already getting close to Fotodiox Pro territory

The GH4 really looks stunning. If they can keep below the promised $2000 price tag (probably closer to $2500-3000 in my country though), I might aswell pick one up after a while.

The reason I looked at the Velbon head is because that's the one people keep refering to when it comes to cheap and usable "fluid" heads. And I can get it from eBay without having to pay the import tax and import fee to Norway. I looked at the WF717 but unfortunately it will cost me more then $160 compared to the $50 of the Velbon. Since it's just going to be a tempoarely solution untill I can buy the Benro Tripod I'll take my chances on the Velbon and hope it's as good as people say, hehe! Thanks for the tip though, appreciate it.

Looked at eBay for some adapters and there is no shortage of that... Just curious to see the same adapter beeing sold by different people where some are claiming focusing to infinity is possible and some are saying it's possible for focal lenghts longer then 50mm. What's normally to expect in this regard?

-

I'm starting to lean towards the GH3 as it does look like a better video camera. But I may also go for the D5300 to save some money right now and put it towards a proper tripod and later a GH4. I still have a few days to make my mind anyway. Like Pete said, pick something and get filming.

- Alex

 

[c3hammer]

I like the Panasonic Lumix 100-300 f/4-5.6 a lot. It's not very fast and it hunts for focus when it's dark, but it's the only lens of it's kind for m43 cams. It definitely needs this tripod mount though. http://www.roesch-feinmechanik.de/29701.html

Here's a couple of my vids with it and the G6 for reference.

https://vimeo.com/71873796 The first few clips in this are with the 600mm. The rest of it is with the 100-300
https://vimeo.com/83098895 The first few scenes are with the 100-300 in this one.
https://vimeo.com/84821987 This one is with the Oly 17mm f/1.8 and an Oly OM 50mm f/1.4 with ETC on and off

Cheers,
Pete

 

[AlexNOR]

I like the Panasonic Lumix 100-300 f/4-5.6 a lot. It's not very fast and it hunts for focus when it's dark, but it's the only lens of it's kind for m43 cams. It definitely needs this tripod mount though. http://www.roesch-feinmechanik.de/29701.html

Here's a couple of my vids with it and the G6 for reference.

https://vimeo.com/71873796 The first few clips in this are with the 600mm. The rest of it is with the 100-300
https://vimeo.com/83098895 The first few scenes are with the 100-300 in this one.
https://vimeo.com/84821987 This one is with the Oly 17mm f/1.8 and an Oly OM 50mm f/1.4 with ETC on and off

Cheers,
Pete

Thanks Pete for sharing your vids. I can see now why you need that monstrous reach, hehe!

I have pretty much decided to go with the GH3, and probably getting a battery grip so it fits better in the hands. I'm also considering getting the 12-35mm f/2.8 with the body. That way I will have a pretty good photo lens aswell as a lens with IS and a full weathersealed option. If I purchase this I will put off purchasing the Oly 17mm f/1.8 just for a bit untill I can make up my mind of how usable the manual focus ring of the 12-35mm is for video.

But it looks like i have to revise my tripod choice. B&H have it now listed as discontinued, even though it was announced just last year. I can't seem to find it on Benro's website either, even though when I was in the Philippines a little over a month ago I saw it available in several Canon and Nikon stores. I probably should email them about it and ask, worst case it's not available in the US yet and I'll just have to find somewhere else to purchase it as it's too pricey or not available in Norway.