Need reassurance on a few things before purchasing..

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dominichicks

Active member
Hi everyone
For those in the UK, you'll know that the VAT goes back up on the 1st, which means I only have a few more days to take the plunge on the 7D (don't worry, I'm not rushing myself into it - I've done a lot of thinking but I really need to make a decision at some point and what better time than now). I do admit that I'm new to the DSLR thing, and haven't yet worked with HD - so I have some questions which I really need answering!

1) Will I have trouble creating slo-mo footage in post (as compared to the GH1)?

2) Will Final Cut Pro 7 like the files, and will conversion etc take a long time (as compared to the GH1)?

3) Will the lack of auto focus genuinely prove to be a problem, or has this been overstated as an advantage of the GH1?

4) Since the cam is PAL (and therefore shoots in 25p as well as 24p, would I be better off shooting 25p, therefore bypassing the need to remove pulldown?

5) For the 'film look', what is the sweet spot of this camera?

6) Overall, with the above requirements in mind (and without this turning into mudslinging), should I seriously consider a GH1 instead? The cameras retail for almost the same price in the UK at the moment.

Many thanks (for your patience!)
Dom
 
Can't help with several of these but...

#3 Cinema cameras don't have auto-focus. You'll be joining the rest of the pro community.
#4 There is no pulldown in true 24p. That's a GH1 issue.
#5 Uhhh, all of it? :)
#6 Tough call. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. For *ME*, the inability of being able to externally monitor the signal on the GH1 during shooting is a show stopper. For others, the 12 minute time limit on the 7D is a show stopper. Really just depends on your needs.

Best of luck with your purchase.
 
1) Nope! Creating slow-mo from either cam is very easy. The image quality will be inferior, however. Most people agree that the GH1's slow-mo looks better than the 7D's (I think because of aliasing).

2) Can't help you much here as I don't own FCP. However, editing the raw H.264 files is generally a no-go unless you own a super-computer. Offline editing is a must.

3) Prooooobably overstated, however I can't say for sure as I don't own a GH1. All I know is that with the depth of field as narrow as it is I would think you'd want to focus manually anyway.

4) Depends on your distribution method. If you're going to DVD I'd use 25p since that's what pAL DVD's will use.

5) The term "film look" is, shall we say... "controversial," but for the purposes of this thread we can say everything except wide shots and crazy handheld will look fabulous on the 7D. Those wide shots and crazy handheld shots will look "only" OK.

6) Depends on what you're shooting and what your shooting style is.

Happy hunting!
 
1. I'm not sure about how the GH1 does it, but the 720/60p or 50p files that the 7D shoots can simply be conformed to 23.98fps resulting in smooth slow motion.

2. FCP7 doesn't easily edit the native files of the 7D. It does okay for a few clips and some simple cuts here and there, but once you start adding filters, color correction, etc.; FCP starts to run really slow. It's a good idea to transcode the original files to ProRes. I personally use ProRes LT because it takes up less space and I can't visually tell a difference between the other higher bitrate ProRes's.

5. Like PerroneFord said, this camera can produce very film-like images. Most of this is due to it's capability of producing very shallow depth of field. I would advise against using the shallowest depth of field possible with every shot as it can be hard to work with and aesthetically unpleasing. Stop your lenses down a bit, limit your DOF and, in return, your videos won't look like every other 7D/5D video out there.
 
I've read Barry's article, and one 'feature/non-feature' that I'd like to see examples of is the 'mud' artifacting indicated in the case of the GH1.

I looked at the specs of both, and there didn't seem to be a 'pop out at you' indication of what the bit rates were. I think I saw 17 Mbs for the GH1, but I didn't recall anything on the 7D, other than finding someone else's discussion which suggested the 7D had a 45 Mbs rate.

On the tests that I saw that Barry did, with shooting at various speeds, and conforming the result to 24p, I didn't see any macro blocking at all... so, under what conditions would the 17 Mbs rate yield more artifacts?
 
Running handheld through a forest will cause the codec to implode. Other than that, it's pretty resilient. And that same scenario will cause the 7D's codec to degrade too, but it has 3x the bitrate of the GH1 so it holds up better.
 
Barry_Green said:
Running handheld through a forest will cause the codec to implode. Other than that, it's pretty resilient. And that same scenario will cause the 7D's codec to degrade too, but it has 3x the bitrate of the GH1 so it holds up better.
Click to expand...

Ok, so my "Blare Which" redux project, may not be the right one for the GH1...

But as it is, I'm tending towards the 7D. I saw some recent stuff that a local person had, but was shot by a pro crew. What is interesting is the 'recommendation' not to use the camera 'handheld', yet this fellow had several examples of the camera following men down ropes from a heliocopter... I think the camera was mounted on the cameraman's helmet...(Some of the footage was from 5D's as well as 7Ds.)

In either case, I have Nikon F lenses around, and the 7D comes in a 'body only' option. (The Wife may divorce me for jumping the Nikon ship... but the D90 and the more recent Nikon HDSLRs in a similar price range don't seem to compare to the 7D or the GH1).
 
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Further Complications

Further Complications

Good info everyone, thanks.
I really didn't want this to turn into a typical 'which is better' thread - as I know both cams have their fortes. However, I've now got a bit of a dilemma: The GH1 has been released in the UK as a body only cam for £650... whilst the 7D is retailing at £1250 body only. That's a considerable difference... and I have some other things to consider:

1) I'm shooting in a one man, possibly three man band - so auto focus might be a plus (even though I respect it's not 'pro' to use it, and I wouldn't generally)

2) Since I'm working low-key, I wouldn't be monitoring on a separate screen (so the GH1's pivoting screen might prove beneficial)

3) I have slow motion sequences in two of my current screenplays!

- all of these points have made me reconsider the GH1...

However, a few more questions:

1) Does anyone with experience of editing both GH1 footage and 7D footage on FCP have any tales to tell as to how the two compare?

2) If I shot 25p/50p on the GH1 I assume I'd have no pulldown to remove, so does that effectively negate the benefit of the 7D not needing pulldown on its 24p footage?

3) Can someone actually SHOW me some of this scary sounding 'muddy footage' or choppy motion footage on the GH1? I don't shoot a lot of action stuff but I'd like to do tracks and pans, and I really don't want to be limited further down the line.

Thanks again for everybody's patience, as I'm sure similar questions have been asked before but even though I've read Barry's article, watched Vimeo vids, ploughed through the forums etc - these are the things I'm still not clear on. In Barry's article it says the GH1 is the ideal video cam, but that the 7D is preferable for digi cinema shooters - this is what put me into this conundrum really, as I'm sort of in between (not using a large crew, video monitoring etc, but looking specifically for the -controversial- 'film look'!)

Dom
 
You'll likely end up with the GH1. You really need a video camera, not an SLR, but you want the shallow focus. You'll learn to shoot around the codec, just like everyone did with DV and HDV. You'll have a wad of cash to blow on a couple of lenses and adapters, and you'll sleep better at night.

You're not going to edit either codec in FCP. You'll be editing ProRes. So it will be like editing anything else. You're not going to be dealing with pulldown in the UK. And if you don't move the camera a bunch, or you move it smoothly, you'll probably not get much "mud" with the camera breaking up.

Best of luck.
 
Yeah it sounds to me like what you really want is the GH1. ESPECIALLY since you can get it for HALF the price of the 7D! Use that extra cash to some faster lenses and maybe a LCDVF or Z-Finder. Wait, do those loupe things work on the GH1? Anybody know?
 
Right I think I'll go for it!

2 more questions first...
1) Any videos displaying the effects of this nasty codec I keep hearing about?
2) Should I pay £1050 for the GH1 with the kit lens, or go for body only and buy a different lens for a more shallow depth of field and wider angle - and if so, which one??
 
dominichicks said:
Right I think I'll go for it!

2 more questions first...
1) Any videos displaying the effects of this nasty codec I keep hearing about?
2) Should I pay £1050 for the GH1 with the kit lens, or go for body only and buy a different lens for a more shallow depth of field and wider angle - and if so, which one??
Click to expand...

I eventually decided on the GH1, mainly on price, and the fact that I really need a audio recording device, so, the 'price difference' is going into getting a portable recorder...

As a note, I really couldn't find examples of the 'mud' artifacts, so, I'll have to do my own tests. From all the accounts of how it occurs, I won't be using the camera 'that way', or shooting major 'fast action'... so, it didn't seem to be as big a deal for some.
 
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