C100: Need lighting kit suggestions

B

Beeboop

Active member
I want to invest in some lights and need some suggestions. My max budget is 3k and that's stretching it. So I was thinking about getting one of the Kino Flo Diva kits.


My lights would be used for weddings, interviews, music videos, and small budget feature films.
 
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Is your budget just for the lights, or do you also need light stands, power strips, stingers, sand bags, C-stands, diffusion, gels, flags, extra lamps, so forth?

Must you purchase new, or is used an option?
 
Used is fine but the budget is for everything. I will purchase anything I can get for around 100$ separately. I did just purchase two Savage drop stands yesterday. Hopefully, Savage is a good brand.
 
$3k is plenty, i would personally get a 3 light arri fresnal kit, 2X 300 w and 1x 650, with the remaining money i'll get a 4 bank kino flo, 'impact turtle base c stands' are slightly cheaper and its available via B&H... if there is any money left after that get one aputure LED light as a back-up, getting it used is a good option too so you can stretch your budget :)
 
Beeboop said:
Doesn't Arri run hot?
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Yeah, but you need Fresnels and equivalent LED Fresnels are above your budget.

I think Amira-user makes some good suggestions. Except, I never understood the point of the Arri 300w. The Arri 650w is quite close in weight and price, and can be fitted with a 300w bulb in addition to a 650w bulb, or could be scrimmed with a 650w bulb. You can't use a 650w bulb in the Arri 300. So I'd advise three Arri 650s over two Arri 300s and one Arri 650.

I have some Lowel Tota lights which with umbrellas have been quite useful for quickly lighting up a room. They're quite bright and not a lot of money. Lowel Pro 250w are also quite useful at a low price. LED is great and all, but if you want a full LED kit you're looking at $10k plus.

My ideal one-man-band LED kit would be:
2x Litepanel Astras (already own that)
2x Area 48
2x Zylight F8-200
4x Practlite 602

Cost: $19,500, not including accessories and batteries
 
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What's your criteria?

Personally I wouldn't recommend divas these days unless maybe you happen to have an awesome deal on them used or really have a specific use you like for them or something... they are bulky for the output and you have to carry extra bulbs of different color temps. Not to mention the 3200k bulbs and the onboard dimmer tend to go pretty pink. Going LED is just so much more convenient and cost effective since you can get them with bicolor dimming in a much smaller package with no bulb changes or replacements.

If you are a one-man-band? If so having your whole kit fit in a rolling case could be important among other things. Do you want to rent out your lights? Do you want a Gaffer to be able to open them up and know where everything is? Will you mostly need tungsten or daylight or will bi-color be important for matching practicals quickly? How important is versatility, size, number of units, power, etc? These are all important considerations.

Personally I love my Yongnuo YN600's when one-man-banding it since I can run them on on a battery and in a compact umbrella softbox if I want and turn them off and dim them with a remote control from a distance. The Westcott Flex lights and the Fiilex are very versatile as well but it's hard to give up remote-controlled dimming and having the whole light be self contained for run-and-gun situations. To complement those a couple lowel tota lights a 1k DP openface are handy since they cost almost nothing and take up almost no space and have perfect color rendering when you need it. And when you need power one or two HMI or high-powered LEDs can really go a long way when you need punch or a really big source but those will quickly break your budget unless you do what I did and go the $150 575w HMI route :) (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?335146-150-for-a-575-HMI-par)

Don't forget to softboxes and diffusion and gels and flags/bounce and clamps and practical bulbs etc.
 
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If I were putting together a first lighting kit on a budget I might do something like this...

4 25' Stingers-High quality extension cords
2 Power Strips-High Quality 15 amp
1 Harbor Freight Router Controller
1 used 650w Fresnel w/barn doors/scrim set/gels
1 used 200w Fresnel w/barn doors/scrim set/gels
1 4x55w Biax Fluorescent w/daylight & studio tube sets w/case for extra set, w/grid, 1/8 minus green gel
1 Aputure LS 1/2w LED & opal frost gels
3 Used Matthews Beefy Baby stands or similar
1 Medium duty light stand
1 used C-Stand w/arm & grip head
1 5in1 collapsable reflector
1 24x36 flag
4 small pony clamps
12 C-47-clothespins
3 Milk Crates
2 Sand Bags

This would give you a solid starting point and 3 different lighting instrument types to build upon in any direction you see fit.

All the best!

Dave
 
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One thing I'd be careful about though is mixing too many different technologies as they can be hard to match no matter how good they appear on their own. Unless you know how to match them and test thoroughly you may get some unpleasant surprises. I usually find myself using either my tungsten kit or my HMI kit or my LED kit for anything other than narrative film where it differences in color spectrum/quality or tint sources may work or get augmented anyway for a night ext or night int etc. For commercial, industrial, music video, etc where things tend to be less naturalistic I don't want my backlight looking green compared to my key etc (this is often the case since people like to use kinos/leds for backlights regardless of what your key is since they are easier to get into position and usually are about the right mix of hard/soft for a hairlight/kicker). I often find gaffers aren't that careful about this and end up wasting time trying to match things on set on monitor or just letting it go. Sometimes it is easier to just use the fixture that works best for the backlight level/quality/mounting and work out the color with gels or in post but if you can avoid having to worry about it, you'll be happier and save yourself some trouble.
 
Also keep in mind that many if not most modern cameras look considerably noisier when running in tungsten preset because of boosted blue channel in that preset. I find that unless I am shooting in an exclusively tungsten envrionment, daylight balanced instruments are better and easier to deal with. I shoot a ton of interviews in my work and I also find that it is cruel to put talent in a smaller room, turn off the AC because of sound issues and then light them with hot, tungsten lights. LED and fluoro are much kinder to talent, especially non-pros who aren't used to sitting under hot lights. But LED and fluoro are also mainly big soft blobs of light, not very good to only have flat, soft sources in your paintbox, unless you can afford LED fresnels, which are still pretty pricey and out of your budget range.

Even though it takes a bit more skill and finesse, I often mix color temp lights in a setup. If I am keying talent with daylight LED or Kino, the extra warmth of a tungsten fresnel as a hair or rim light can look amazing. A lot of depends on whether you are trying to be artistic with your lighting, or "correct". Some of my most memorable lighting setups involved dozens of lights with two or three primary color temps, more like theatrical or stage lighting. Not the right choice for every situation obviously but if you have clients who are a bit adventurous, you can do some cool stuff with mixed temps. As far as a kit, I find I need a pile of stuff out of which I can create two or three different kits. For instance, green screen. My green screen kit is different than my travel kit is different than my shooting within car driving distance kit.

A true "all purpose" kit is challenging to assemble, especially for under $3k for everything but it can be done., but you have to think outside the box. Just don't scrimp on lighting controls, gels, diffusion, cinefoil, some C-stands, foamcore, etc. Even though Lowells are far from my favorite lights, if I had $3k to assemble everything, I would consider a pair of used Totas and or Omnis, they have a ton of value and are perfect for softboxes or bounce cards or shooting through a wall of grid cloth. To come in under $3k, you need some serious power without breaking the bank. I am not sure I would buy all LEDs or Kinos, perhaps one or two LED panels, inexpensive ones, which are getting better and better with more color accuracy than they had a few years ago. Kinos are great but I built my own for less than $200.00 per fixture equivalent to a Diva 200. Mine aren't as flexible or light as Divas but for soft fill, I would rather own two of these for $400.00 than one Diva 200 for over $1,000.00 for the kit. The end result is the light from lights comes from the same Kino tubes that are in the Diva and I actually have a better reflector system in my lights. Mine are heavier and don't have barndoors built in like Divas but mine work just as well, if not better and cost 20% of what a real Kino costs. That's why I built them from scratch, I didn't like the value equation for the Divas, even though I think they are great lights.

Now that I am writing this all out, two used Totas or Omnis get's you 1,500 or 1,600 watts of tungsten output for probably $300.00. I would get a used or lower cost (small - 24" x 36") softbox but make sure it is rated for hot tungsten lights, perhaps $200.00 for that. I would buy some cheap Chinese Fotodiox or something like that Kino knockoffs - (just buy real Kino tubes to run in them and they are great) or make my own, figure $400.00 to $600.00 for the two plus another $100.00 or so for a set of tungsten and a set of daylight Kino tubes. So far, you have spent $1,200.00 and you have four great, useful lights, two of which can do daylight or tungsten for those times when you need to mix with daylight. I would buy three to five good (like Matthews or American Grip) used light stands, figure another $500.00, now we are up to $1,700.00. You need a case, like a Kata or used Arri Kit case, figure $200.00 to $300.00 for that. Now you have a thousand dollars left. C47s, diffusion, blackwrap, foamcore, gaffer tape, some Duvetine, grip clamps, two used C-stands, some extension cords and if you have enough left, perhaps a small, inexpensive daylight balanced LED panel and a small, cheap softbox for it? Now, for your $3k, you have five light sources, you can shoot in daylight or tungsten situations, you have horsepower, softness, dimmable in the LED panel, you have a variety of different lighting technologies that useful in a hundred different situations.

This kit would be leagues more versatile than any prefab kit under $3k. I have two Arri kits, they are fine but not that flexible and are pretty useless when trying to mix with daylight. Putting full CTB gel or a Dichroic filter on a 650 fresnel eats about half of it's output, knocking it down to the power of a 300 watt instrument, not very useful in a brightly lightup room or in daylight shade. At least with a couple of Diva like lights, have a chance to providing some daylight fill in shade or a daylight lit room. Also with the Omni, you can barndoor it down to slices or snoot it to a circular vignette and that light and the Tota are also usable for throwing cucloris patterns on a BG wall. While this kit can't do everything, it can a lot with some talent and imagination. Pre-built kits are just too limiting IMHO.
 
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puredrifting said:
LED and fluoro are also mainly big soft blobs of light, not very good to only have flat, soft sources in your paintbox, unless you can afford LED fresnels, which are still pretty pricey and out of your budget range.
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I have LED panels and Fluoros but have been searching for an affordable LED fesnel. I'm currently investigating this one http://www.ledgo.hk/en/WorksInfo.aspx?id=271

Its still pretty pricey but less than the competition and priced around an abused HMI. Love the ability to adapt bowens mount accessories. Had my hands on one last week in local showroom and now seriously debating buying one.
 
David W. Jones said:
Unfortunately that LEDGO-D1200M light would use up almost half of the OP's budget.
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Agreed. Even the 'cheap' ones aren't cheap.

If I were the OP I would get something along the lines of what David listed. Those generic 4xBiax flo's are a great bang for the buck. Good grip gear will last for several light upgrade cycles. A lot of how I would put together a package would depend on access to rental houses and availability. Lots of places are giving such great deals on tungsten rentals that for the times I would need I will opt to rent. If the OP lived in a smaller market then a good tungsten set would be a great starting basis.
 
Just figured the cost checking today's prices online and revised the list slightly.


4 25' Stingers-High quality extension cords = $200
2 Power Strips-High Quality 15 amp = $30
1 Harbor Freight Router Controller = $20
1 used 650w Fresnel w/barn doors/scrim set/gels = $130
1 Replacement lamp = $13
1 used 200w Fresnel w/barn doors/scrim set/gels = $80
1 Replacement lamp = $8
1 4x55w Biax Fluorescent w/daylight & studio tube sets w/case for extra set, w/grid, 1/8 minus green gel = $200 + $132 for nice Kino Flo 55W tubes = $332
1 Aputure LS 1/2w LED & opal frost gels = $500
4 Used Matthews Beefy Baby stands or similar = $350
1 C-Stand w/arm & grip head = $150
1 5in1 collapsable reflector = $15
1 24x36 flag = $30
4 small pony clamps = $12
12 C-47-clothespins = $4
3 Milk Crates = $60
2 Sand Bags = $50
1 50' black Trick Line = $6
1 Roll BlackWrap = $25
1 Roll Gaff Tape = $15
1 Rock N Roller cart = $150

Total = $2,180

Which comes in under budget.
 
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Eric Coughlin said:
What is the purpose of high quality extension cords? I haven't had any issues with the Walmart extension cords I've been using.
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What's the purpose of a C300 MkII? I haven't had any issues with the iPhone I've been using. :happy:

If Walmart extension cords work for you then great. It's just been my experience that nice quality wire and connectors help contain voltage drop issues, while also meeting insurance and liability standards. Some venues have a minimum requirement when it comes to "extension cords".
 
David W. Jones said:
What's the purpose of a C300 MkII? I haven't had any issues with the iPhone I've been using. :happy:
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I've had a lot of issues with my iPhone for video. Auto shutter speed isn't set correctly, so images are very blurry and smeared. Dynamic range is really low. Image isn't that sharp. Very noisy in low light. Auto-focusing for video isn't great. Doesn't even have SDI to connect to my Steadicam Zephyr. I could go on. I'm still using an iPhone 4s as my main phone, but I'm finding the C300 Mark II works much better for video. Then even if you can workaround all those problems you have to deal with producers who don't want to pay a $1400 day rate for your iPhone 4s. ;)


David W. Jones said:
If Walmart extension cords work for you then great. It's just been my experience that nice quality wire and connectors help contain voltage drop issues, while also meeting insurance and liability standards. Some venues have a minimum requirement when it comes to "extension cords".
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I haven't had any voltage drop issues (and I often use around 1800 watts on one cord) nor have I worked with vendors who care what extension cords I use. I guess if it works it works, and I guess for some those reasons you mentioned are worth paying a bit more for better quality extension cords. I do notice the better quality ones tend to wrap more neatly.

I'm not saying that premium extension cables are a bad choice, and I'd guess are a requirement for a grip truck, but I am questioning how important they are to someone creating a starting kit. I do spend on high quality XLR cables for audio, but only because I know the quality of the cable directly affects the sound quality. The quality of an extension cord does not affect the quality or color fidelity of the light, just safety and reliability, and who needs that. Wait.
 
Eric Coughlin said:
I've had a lot of issues with my iPhone for video. Auto shutter speed isn't set correctly, so images are very blurry and smeared. Dynamic range is really low. Image isn't that sharp. Very noisy in low light. Auto-focusing for video isn't great. Doesn't even have SDI to connect to my Steadicam Zephyr. I could go on. I'm still using an iPhone 4s as my main phone, but I'm finding the C300 Mark II works much better for video. Then even if you can workaround all those problems you have to deal with producers who don't want to pay a $1400 day rate for your iPhone 4s. ;)



I haven't had any voltage drop issues (and I often use around 1800 watts on one cord) nor have I worked with vendors who care what extension cords I use. I guess if it works it works, and I guess for some those reasons you mentioned are worth paying a bit more for better quality extension cords. I do notice the better quality ones tend to wrap more neatly.

I'm not saying that premium extension cables are a bad choice, and I'd guess are a requirement for a grip truck, but I am questioning how important they are to someone creating a starting kit. I do spend on high quality XLR cables for audio, but only because I know the quality of the cable directly affects the sound quality. The quality of an extension cord does not affect the quality or color fidelity of the light, just safety and reliability, and who needs that. Wait.
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Eric-
Just get a Galaxy S6.....the camera blows away the iphone's camera....HDR, great auto focus, etc.....to para-quote some posters here..."It's just as good as an Alexa!
...Jim
 
Eric Coughlin said:
I haven't had any voltage drop issues (and I often use around 1800 watts on one cord) nor have I worked with vendors who care what extension cords I use. I guess if it works it works, and I guess for some those reasons you mentioned are worth paying a bit more for better quality extension cords. I do notice the better quality ones tend to wrap more neatly.

I'm not saying that premium extension cables are a bad choice, and I'd guess are a requirement for a grip truck, but I am questioning how important they are to someone creating a starting kit. I do spend on high quality XLR cables for audio, but only because I know the quality of the cable directly affects the sound quality. The quality of an extension cord does not affect the quality or color fidelity of the light, just safety and reliability, and who needs that. Wait.
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Sure you could always save money and start with lesser components, but the pieces I picked for the OP are pieces which he can keep and build upon, rather than replace down the line. For what it's worth, there is always line loss. Especially on longer runs. Using the correct gauge wire can mean the difference between your HMI striking properly, or throwing a breaker. As far as vendors caring what extension cords you use, it's more to do with being compliant with code. For example... Some of the stages I have worked will not allow SJOOW. So I also keep SOOW stingers in my kit. Bottom line, a high quality SJOOW cable should last for many years.

All the best!

Dave
 
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