Need help with 300 setup

N

n90guy

Member
Hi All,

I have an HPX170 and 300. I have been trying to set the 300 up to match the 170 as I am getting better images out of the 170, but cannot seem to get a good match. My big complaint with the 300 is the lack of sharpness and it does not seem to handle the highlights as well as the 170. I have triple checked the back focus on the 300 and I believe it is a sensor difference, but there has to be a way to get it close. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

170 Setup:
Detail LVL through A. Irs LVL set to 0
DRS Off
Gamma B-Press
Knee Mid
Matrix Norm 1
Skin Detail off
 
Hallo! You are having better pictures with the 171 then the 300...there's something that doesn't works in the proper mode! The 300 has a much better quality than the 171.Now my questions....
How do you set up the 300? Are you using iris at f5.6 or 8 when you are shooting? Wich scene file are you using? Are you sure that your backfocus is set correctly? Are you using strange charts to set backfocus? Are you using 1080p? Shutter speed?
Are you using knee in auto mode?

Is important to set up the 300 in the right way before shooting!
Bests,
Roberto
 
Roberto Tafuro said:
Hallo! You are having better pictures with the 171 then the 300...there's something that doesn't works in the proper mode! The 300 has a much better quality than the 171.Now my questions....
How do you set up the 300? Are you using iris at f5.6 or 8 when you are shooting? Wich scene file are you using? Are you sure that your backfocus is set correctly? Are you using strange charts to set backfocus? Are you using 1080p? Shutter speed?
Are you using knee in auto mode?

Is important to set up the 300 in the right way before shooting!
Bests,
Roberto
Click to expand...

Hi Roberto,

Sorry for lack of info. To answer your questions:

-Typically the iris is set at 5.6
-I am using the stock 1st scene file
-I have checked the back focus numerous times and I shoot in a studio environment so it is does not see a lot of travel or extreme temperature changes.
-We shoot all interviews at 1080/60i for news distribution.
-Knee is set to mid
-gamma is set to b-press
-matrix norm 1
-drs 1
-current firmware version 9:35

Thanks for your help!
 
n90guy said:
Hi Roberto,

Sorry for lack of info. To answer your questions:

-Typically the iris is set at 5.6
-I am using the stock 1st scene file
-I have checked the back focus numerous times and I shoot in a studio environment so it is does not see a lot of travel or extreme temperature changes.
-We shoot all interviews at 1080/60i for news distribution.
-Knee is set to mid
-gamma is set to b-press
-matrix norm 1
-drs 1
-current firmware version 9:35

Thanks for your help!
Click to expand...

Hallo and don't warry! 1080 60i is very good on this camera. Try this settings and see if your image change:

Set the shutter speed at 1/120 if you're in a controlled light room, set ND 1 or ND 2 if you are overexposed and try to use iris at 2.8 o 4 max. (you can turn off the electronic shutter if you like...)
Set the coring to +4
Detail at -2 or 0
Knee low or mid is good (generally i prefer low)
ped at -10 or if you like contrasted images you can go down such as -20
use gain at -3
DRS 1 is good
Try a black balance before shooting and than do the white balance as well
For the gamma try HD Norm
For the Matrix Norm 1 or select Norm 2 if you want more color in the picture
Skin tone off

You can use the color temp ACH or BCH after you set the white "manually" not in auto but with the two presets (A or B) (Ach refers to the A position and Bch to the B position ) if you want to set correctly your color temp.

Have you noticed a focus issue when you change from tele to wide? How far is the backfocus ring from the original position?

Try this settings and let me know abou your results! Maybe you can post some native footage so we can see your problems!
Hope it helps someway!
Bests,
Roberto
 
+1 What Roberto said. You really don't want to be pushing f/5.6, set a higher shutter or use ND filters to reduce light level. It's a 1/3" camera after all, you only need about f/2.8 at 4.5mm to have everything up to infinity in focus.

The 300 and 370 are finicky beasts, you really don't want to keep them on their stock scene file because they won't look their best. Setting Detail coring to a positive level isn't very helpful if your detail is at 0 or lower, IMO, it needs higher detail to do it's thing. For highlight handling, you may want to try the Cine D gamma, it'll give you a ton of dynamic range. Personally, I don't think the 3xx cams seem to produce very good "straight out of camera" footage, but they can handle grading very well and look just fine with some sharpening in post.
 
Kolor-Pikker said:
+1 What Roberto said. You really don't want to be pushing f/5.6, set a higher shutter or use ND filters to reduce light level. It's a 1/3" camera after all, you only need about f/2.8 at 4.5mm to have everything up to infinity in focus.

The 300 and 370 are finicky beasts, you really don't want to keep them on their stock scene file because they won't look their best. Setting Detail coring to a positive level isn't very helpful if your detail is at 0 or lower, IMO, it needs higher detail to do it's thing. For highlight handling, you may want to try the Cine D gamma, it'll give you a ton of dynamic range. Personally, I don't think the 3xx cams seem to produce very good "straight out of camera" footage, but they can handle grading very well and look just fine with some sharpening in post.
Click to expand...


Right Kolor!:thumbsup:
I use coring at +4 or +5 and detail at -2 or 0 because i don't like super detailed pictures.I agree with you:
if you like details you can go even to +3 with detail levels (when coring is at a positive value). I shoot a video last week and i've tested a +2 detail. We were in a white room and i was very happy with the picture. I change settings for every work that i do! I love to push buttons and change values!
Roberto
 
Also, never go above +6 gain, it starts to look to noisy, plus you rarely need to go beyond that, even in a low light room. The gain from the factory is usually set way to high and the picture looks
like crap.
 
zeke said:
Also, never go above +6 gain, it starts to look to noisy, plus you rarely need to go beyond that, even in a low light room. The gain from the factory is usually set way to high and the picture looks
like crap.
Click to expand...


Yes! That's an important thing! I leave gain at -3 all the time. If there is no light i turn on the flare on the camera!
Roberto
 
OP wrote "... I shoot in a studio environment so it is does not see a lot of travel or extreme temperature changes.", so I suspect gain isn't a big problem for him.
That said, there really isn't much reason to have your gain switch set to anything other than -3, 0 and +3, if you're pushing +6 and higher, you got bought the wrong camera.
 
I always try and stay @ -3 on the gain. But I disagree on the occasional use of +6 or +9 gain.
Sometimes we shoot in a dark hotel gallery banquet room. The lighting is usually less then adequate. You need the gain sometimes.
 
Well ok, I was rather flippant on that comment, though I meant it in a general sense... it's not often you have to shoot in poorly lit rooms, unless the low light level is intentional.
 
Kolor-Pikker said:
OP wrote "... I shoot in a studio environment so it is does not see a lot of travel or extreme temperature changes.", so I suspect gain isn't a big problem for him.
That said, there really isn't much reason to have your gain switch set to anything other than -3, 0 and +3, if you're pushing +6 and higher, you got bought the wrong camera.
Click to expand...


Not sure where anyone got the idea i was using anything other than -3 gain. I never go above 0 gain.

On a side note I am using the B-Press setting because according to the manual it has the least amount of noise.
 
Kolor-Pikker said:
+1 What Roberto said. You really don't want to be pushing f/5.6, set a higher shutter or use ND filters to reduce light level. It's a 1/3" camera after all, you only need about f/2.8 at 4.5mm to have everything up to infinity in focus.

The 300 and 370 are finicky beasts, you really don't want to keep them on their stock scene file because they won't look their best. Setting Detail coring to a positive level isn't very helpful if your detail is at 0 or lower, IMO, it needs higher detail to do it's thing. For highlight handling, you may want to try the Cine D gamma, it'll give you a ton of dynamic range. Personally, I don't think the 3xx cams seem to produce very good "straight out of camera" footage, but they can handle grading very well and look just fine with some sharpening in post.
Click to expand...

The only time I use the cameras ND is outdoors to keep a low F stop.
 
n90guy said:
On a side note I am using the B-Press setting because according to the manual it has the least amount of noise.
Click to expand...
Then I guess Panasonic knows something I don't. I don't have time to shoot tests on how much noise gets aggravated and by which settings, but to me it seems that any setting that boosts contrast makes it stand out more, which is kinda strange since some people here have recommended dropping the master ped, which crushes the blacks and makes the noise only worse on my end. But this is mainly limited to in-camera, if I boost the contrast in post, the noise really doesn't pop out the way it would if I had used different settings.
 
Hallo n90guy! In the list of things that you have to stay aware with the 300,Zeke introduced the gain problem and Kolor reply to him. They not said that you're using an high gain value, just remind you to not use an high gain value if you can!

Have you tried the settings that i've suggest to you? Have you noticed a change in terms of quality?
B Press is a gamma that produce less noise accordingly to your other settings. For ex. if you use B Press with an high detail level and coring to 0 you will have noise in the picture. So is the combination of settings that makes things changing.
Noise in picture is a problem with the 300 but i assure you that with the settings that i've posted you will reduce it a lot. After you can apply a fast blur of 0,5 pixels.
170/200 noise is much,much evident. And you have to consider that the cinematic look of the 300 is almost impossible to reproduce on the 171/200, that's the power of the 3xx series! Look at Lez's works, absolutely amazing!

http://vimeo.com/6605095
http://vimeo.com/6394998
http://vimeo.com/6394506
http://vimeo.com/7012772
http://vimeo.com/6937245

ND is a very usefull option. Wich kind of lights are you using in your studio setup? Are you shooting in a white room or with green screen?
When i shoot a green screen i usually use three kino with 6 lamps at 5600 (2100W), ND 2, iris open,gain -3 and shutter at 1/50. The camera may suggest to change to ND1 but i don't care!
You can use levels if you want much contrast.
Chroma phase is another powerfull feature.
Try the settings that i've posted and change them accordingly to your taste. It' only a starting point...

Roberto
 
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