Need help making a DSLR purchase decision

thefilmaddict

thefilmaddict

Veteran
I am looking to buy a new DSLR. Here are my needs:

1. I have a budget of about $1,400.
2. I want to use this as a second video camera on shoots (I already own the Sony EX1 and a Letus and shoot short films).
3. I need it before I go on vacation in 2 weeks.
4. I also want to use it as a video camera for vacation (home videos) and as a still camera for quality family photos/portraits.
5. I already own a 2.8 28-70mm Nikon zoom and a 1.4 nikon 50 mm prime lens. They are the manual type that I use on my Letus. I would love to be able to use these on my new DSLR if possible because they are pretty fast and would give me shallow depth of field that I love and the ability to work with less light.
6. I want to be able to edit in Premiere and/or FCP (prior to version X).
7. I want to shoot in 1080 24p.
8. I also have a couple of slower zooms for my old Nikon D40x. Not sure if these lenses will benefit my new DSLR (just thought I would throw that in).

Here's what I have been looking at from B & H:

1. Canon EOS 60D DSLR Camera Kit with Canon EF-S 18-135mm Lens http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/732048-REG/Canon_4460B004_EOS_60D_DSLR_Camera.html

2. Nikon D7000 DSLR Camera (Body Only) http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/735002-REG/Nikon_25468_D7000_DSLR_Camera_Body.html

Thoughts:
1. Canon 60d: PROS: I heard it's easy to manually control in video mode, takes great stills and has a swivel LCD screen. CONS: A lot of talk about moire issues on DVXuser from Canons and would I be able to use my old Nikon lenses with this camera?

2. Nikon D7000: PROS: I assume I could use my old lenses with it, right? I also heard it takes great stills. CONS: I heard it is a pain to manually control in video mode.

3. I have also been looking at the Panasonic GH2, but I think it's out of my price range. I heard it takes great video, but is not a very good still camera. Could I use my old Nikon lenses on it? Is it more than $1,400?

4. I also see that Sony is coming out with new DSLRs, but I doubt they will be out in time for me.


Any other cameras I should look at in my budget? I am not trying to start a war here. I just wanted to give you my specific information and see what you think will do the job for me. I really appreciate your time. I always learn a lot from DVXUSER. Thanks!
 
having either owned or tested nearly every DSLR out there. i will tell you the following:

canons are SUPERB. IF ALL you do with it is:
- take stills
- shoot creative features / shorts and other fairly controlled situations

now before all the canon fanboys here flame me. ive owned a t3i and a 60d and for general stills i liked or loved them both. and in the right situations i enjoyed their video output as well. but i found that in day to day environments you nearly always come up against a fence or bricks or some kind of siding. and its pretty easy to generate moire issues with a canon. yes even in 1080 mode sometimes.

so that made it a deal-breaker for me for day to day use.
(there is a company now making a physical insert that GREATLY minimizes this. but its only for the 5D now and i hear soon for the 7D. but both are out of your price range. so id pretend it doesnt exist)

i wouldnt bother with nikons for video at all. they have most of the negatives of canon and panasonic with few if any game changing positives (admittedly, ive spent the least time with the nikon of all of them. but everyone i know whos used them. flat out prefer the canon or panasonic for video). but yeah. you can use your old glass. but obviously you wont enjoy any modern auto anything

i chose the panasonic GH2 with a rayqual nikon adapter for a number of reasons:
- fewer (virtually non-existent) moire / aliasing issues
- more shooting modes and resolutions
- with the adapter i can use basically any nikon glass ever made.
- the GH2 doenst have canons 12min clip limits. you can roll with a GH2 for as long as your card will hold.

with that said. i HATE the way the GH2 feels in my hands. its light. its small and plasticy. where even the cheap canon t2i feels like a professional tool. the GH2 feels like a toy. but its performance helps me over that hump pretty quickly.

the one really handy (if not crucial) feature i liked about the 60D was that it has a separate control for aperture and shutter speed. the t3i and GH2 have one dial that toggles between either - THAT SUCKS MONKEY BALLS if you ever shoot STILLS of sports or other live events

a GH2 with the kit 14-140 is right at about $1450. im not a fan of that lens. but it will benefit you to have at least ONE lens with modern IS and AF features. for quicky one-off situations where you dont have time to dick around with focus.

admittedly, the GH2 isnt the best still camera going. but i found after adding the adapter and manual glass. i actually liked the look of the stills as much or better than what i was getting from the canon.

what i found was something i call the "canon illusion" that is with any of their better bodies and off the shelf kit lens it was easier to get the image "look" that i wanted. i hated everything i shot with my first GH2 and the kit lens. but with more practice and with the added nikon glass. i could achieve a much more pleasing end result. with nearly none of the moire issues so prevalent in the canons

just remember. you cant shoot with ANY DSLR the way you would with a video camera. whip pans turn light poles into licorice and you get a slight 24f cadence judder with really any significant movement.
 
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I agree with WGZN, The gh2 is miles ahead of Canon for run-n-gun scenarios. especially if your using it on vacation. it even has constant auto focus for when you feel lazy. lol
 
Thanks, guys. It sounds like the Nikons stink for video and the Canon's are better, but suffer from moire / aliasing issues. It sounds like the Panasonic is worth a second look. What do you think about this package:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._DMC_GH2K_K_Lumix_DMC_GH2_Digital_Camera.html

1. I see that the GH2 shoots 60i. Does it shoot 1080 24p?

2. The above B&H link comes with 14-42mm lens. That seems very wide to me, but B&H goes on to state that the lens is equivelant to 28-84mm in 35mm. This would be plenty telephoto for me for most situations if that's true. Can anyone confirm this?

3. How is the LCD screen on the panasonic? Can you focus with it?

4. So I guess the Panasonic can be a good still photo camera, too?

5. What Nikon adapter should I buy to use my older Nikon manual lenses?

6. Is the format that the GH2 shoots easy to edit with in FCP and/or Premiere?

I really appreciate this!!!
 
i wouldnt say that nikons "stink" for video. but you'll just find far more canon and panasonic devotees out there.

as far as your questions:

1. YES
2. what you say is accurate. but for a few hundred bucks more you get more telephoto at the same speed with the 14-140. most people say its worth it.
3. as good as any other DSLR and yes. its acceptable for general focus. but you'll want a loupe magnifier or at lest a sun hood for it. one of the cool things about the GH2 is you can use the eyepiece for either video or stills. i dont care for it as its an evf rather than optical. but it gives you an accurate idea of what the camera is seeing...
AND it sends HD out via HDMI while recording if you want to use a monitor. all but two canon dlsrs downres the hdmi output to a muddy sd while recording
4. yes. but like i say. its not as idiot-proof out of the box as a canon kit is.
5. there are several. but i found the rayqual the best for the money. does everything a $500 adapter does. for about half the price
6. havent tried it in premiere yet. but goes just fine into my fcp6
7. i havent had any low light situation where i couldnt get SOMETHING. yeah, past about 1600 or so. youre getting a bunch of grain. but from there forward, its probably understood, if not desired for effect ; )

just remember. you can always crank the ISO to get more light. but in the bright of day you can only close down so far. so you'll want a couple screw on ND filters
 
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thefilmaddict said:
Thanks, guys. It sounds like the Nikons stink for video and the Canon's are better, but suffer from moire / aliasing issues. It sounds like the Panasonic is worth a second look. What do you think about this package:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._DMC_GH2K_K_Lumix_DMC_GH2_Digital_Camera.html

1. I see that the GH2 shoots 60i. Does it shoot 1080 24p?

2. The above B&H link comes with 14-42mm lens. That seems very wide to me, but B&H goes on to state that the lens is equivelant to 28-84mm in 35mm. This would be plenty telephoto for me for most situations if that's true. Can anyone confirm this?

3. How is the LCD screen on the panasonic? Can you focus with it?

4. So I guess the Panasonic can be a good still photo camera, too?

5. What Nikon adapter should I buy to use my older Nikon manual lenses?

6. Is the format that the GH2 shoots easy to edit with in FCP and/or Premiere?

I really appreciate this!!!
Click to expand...

1: yes it does.

2: on the long end the kit lens is a short tele, your not going to shoot close ups of birds with this lens, its decent for what it is but you wont want to use it for everything.

3: you can focus with the screen, but its not that great, the evf is better imo. dont be fooled by the lcd either, it can get pretty pixelated and show aliasing and moire, dont worry though its not in the actual image, the screen just sucks.

4: believe it or not the gh2 is a damn capable stills cam. the only thing it has problems with is long exposures and high iso situations where it sometimes shows fpn and just ugly noise in general.

5: probably any run of the mill adapter off ebay will do.

6: my computer with premiere cs5 handles the footage much better then it did with t2i footage, but i dont know how others experiences have been editing the footage.

7: it does extremely well in low light especially with the hack installed, i get more then acceptable images all the way up to 1600 or even 3200.
 
5: probably any run of the mill adapter off ebay will do.
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thats true as long as youre dealing with old manual aperture glass. modern lenses will have electronic aperture control. so you'll need one of the pricier models (like the rayqual) to override that and give you control

i get more then acceptable images all the way up to 1600 or even 3200.
Click to expand...
heck, i sometimes crank it to 3200 just for the effect ; )
 
Thanks so much guys. Great info I had no idea about. I do like to take a lot of portrait type of shots. It sounds like the kit zooms are kind of slow. Do they make faster and still affordable primes that work with the gh2? It doesn't look like b and h sells the camera body alone.
 
there are faster m4/3 zooms coming out later this or early next year. if i were you id get the kit with the 140 and the rayqual adapter and wait and see.
 
thefilmaddict said:
I am looking to buy a new DSLR. Here are my needs:
Click to expand...

60D Moire aliasing, GH2 Limited lens selection, smaller sensor.
Sony could be the answer they have the a65 model with most of the features from the a77 for $ 1000

Seems to me like 1080 60p, gives great motion and in this footage I don't see any aliasing or Moire

 
Felipe Henao said:
60D Moire aliasing, GH2 Limited lens selection, smaller sensor.
Sony could be the answer they have the a65 model with most of the features from the a77 for $ 1000

Seems to me like 1080 60p, gives great motion and in this footage I don't see any aliasing or Moire
Click to expand...

Strongly disagree with your lens comment, as a 7D and GH2 owner the GH2 has far more lens options (and they are not hampered by the crop-factor any more than the 7D's crop factor affects it). Virtually any lens ever made can be adapted to it. Can't say the same for the Canon's or Sony.

The video from that Sony does look quite good though, wish I knew more about them. Research time!

To the OP: I'd recommend adding a GH2 body, Panasonic Lumix 20mm f/1.7, and Nikon F to M4/3 adapter to your kit. That'll make a great, well-rounded kit with vintage, beautiful glass in medium to tele and modern AF performance in a fast wide.

As far as photo performance goes, no, the GH2 is not a 7D, it's more akin to my old D90 (which is still great).
 
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1. I keep seeing posts about a GH2 hack. What is the hack for/what does it do? Will I need to do it?

2. Also, I see that the GH2 has no mirror, so it's not a true DSLR? I know that in the film days not having a SLR camera meant that you could not see what the lens was shooting. Is this what it means for the GH2? Are there issues with framing?

Sorry if these are dumb questions!
 
thefilmaddict said:
1. I keep seeing posts about a GH2 hack. What is the hack for/what does it do?
Click to expand...

The GH-2 hack allows you to shoot at much higher data-rates which produces an even more detailed and cleaner image when shooting highly detailed subjects or high motion subjects. The GH-2 is already very good with these subjects, the hack makes it even better. ( for European users the hack can remove the 30 minute clip length limit )

thefilmaddict said:
2. Also, I see that the GH2 has no mirror, so it's not a true DSLR?
Click to expand...

Yes, the GH-2 is an EVIL ( electronic-viewfinder interchangeable-lenses ) camera. The mirror has been eliminated because it's not necessary. This camera uses an electronic viewfinder instead of an optical one, so you see exactly what the sensor sees, and it's much easier to work in bright sunlight with the EVF because you can easily see all of the camera settings on the EVF display.

The GH-2 is an amazing camera but you will need to practice to get to know all of it's settings. It works great with Nikon lenses ( especially older manual AI-S ones, I use 2 Zeiss ZF lenses with Nikon mounts and a Voightlander adapter ), and old Canon FD lenses. ( you can find lots of these on eBay ) The best low-cost adapter is the Metabones Nikon F adapter, which is a clone of the Voightlander Nikon F adapter.

Metabones Nikon F to M4/3 Adapter : $90 on eBay

BTW, the Panasonic 14-45mm kit lens is not that bad. The older 14-45mm is better, but it's a bit harder to find. BH Photo used to list the GH-2 body by itself, so you still might be able to buy the body alone if you contact them.

If you want to record audio with your GH-2 ( it records great audio, and the AGC circuit works more like a limiter, which is very handy ) you will need to buy a 2.5mm to 3.5mm audio adapter. I bought a bunch of these ones from B&H:

Hosa Technology GMP-467 - Right Angle Adapter : $3.50

Which allows you to plug mics like this directly in to your GH-2...

Rode VideoMic Pro Compact Shotgun Microphone : $229

One last comment, I was quite unhappy with the quality of the still photos the GH-2 takes until I started to ONLY shoot in RAW format. The GH-2 is a very good still photo camera when shooting in RAW mode. Very close in quality to what the Canons and Nikon APC-S cameras shoot. ( Canon and Nikon are still better, but it's a small difference )
 
I just placed my order. I went with the GH2 with the 14-42 lens (they don't sell the body alone yet at B&H -- they might at a later time). I then also added the Panasonic 20mm f1.7 lens for shallow depth of field with 2 stops of ND. I purchased an extra battery (cheap brand -- I hope it's a good back up), lcd shade, and a Panasonic 32 GB card. I wanted the 14-140 lens, but it's expensive when added to everything else I wanted. I will get the Nikon F to M 4/3 adapter later on when I can afford it (so I can use my older Nikon glass). I think I made the right choice.

Thanks for all of the tips. It sounds like stills will be pretty decent if I shoot with the fast lens and shoot in RAW mode. From everything you guys told me, the video will be very good for a DSLR camera. The next big question I will have to answer is do I do the hack or not? I would love to hear your opinions on that! Are there any pros and cons?
 
Jester2138 said:
The video from that Sony does look quite good though, wish I knew more about them. Research time!
Click to expand...

If is real that Sony solved the Moire, heating problems, Also seem like Dynamic range not only in video but in photo, was improved we would be
looking how the money muscle make presence.
Another plus I can see, is the EVF from this A77, with real representation in real time, so if you prefer the EVF over the hood loupe, Zacuto or any other
LCD or HDMI viewer, is right there in an even smaller factor with greater efficiency. I personally respect a lot Panasonic products, after having the pleasure
of owning one of their formal video cameras, and GH2 seems to be the only Video DSLR clean image at the moment.
For me is not a cool idea to start selling my Canon gear, to switch to Sony but if testing and reviews put the A77 as the new king of the block, why not to trade one of the Rebels and give Sony a try, Is a totally different technology. As well as Canon if you want top Lenses prices are high, L lenses for Canon or Carl Zeiss for Sony are expensive, but Canon has a very nice collection of lenses like 50 1.4, 85 1.8, 28 1.8 that are very good for reasonable price while Sony you either go with Carl Zeiss glass or the SAM lenses that seem to be poor construction, I guess not the best glass but I might be wrong about SAM glass.
Sigma and Tamron also make lenses for Alpha cameras, This A77, A65 cameras Also seeeem to have a good autofocus in video mode.
ALL has to reviewed any way
 
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I've been using a Nikon adapter from Fotodiox. I think it's about $30. My Nikons include a 35/2, Micro 55/3.5, and a 70-210 zoom (sometimes reversed). I also have Fotodiox's FD, M42, C, and Leica-R adapters and they've all worked fine.

The cheap batteries usually always work, but they don't work completely... meaning, they won't let you know they're about to run out of juice until they just up n' shut down. This can corrupt clips, so be wary... do some testing so you get a ballpark idea of how long that battery will last, and consider it more an emergency backup than a top-line powerpack.
 
my opinion on the hack is that its absolutely worth it, its super easy to install and gives great results. do keep in mind its not like the camera is crippled without the hack, it still produces amazing images, but hacking the camera is like being able to strap a huge turbo charger onto your car for free. for more information on it you should check out the ptools 3.62 thread or go check out the personal views website.
 
A few more questions about the hack:

1. So just how does a hacked camera do vs a non hacked camera? Is there some way of describing how much better the compression is?

2. Once hacked, do the cards have any problem with the higher data rates? Do hacked recordings fail?

3. Does the hack void the warranty of the camera?

4. Beyond better compression, what else does the hack do?

Thanks!
 
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