GH4 Need advice on GH5

G

GARoss

New member
Hi everyone. I am a retired amateur photographer / videographer & do not intend to shoot with the GH5 professionally. I'm looking at the GH5 with great interest but concerned about the cameras photo abilities. I know the video quality will be amazing compared to my current camera, Canon EOS-70d, but wondered if the GH5's photo quality would be on par or similar to it. I do know sensors have improved greatly over the years so maybe the difference between APS-C & 43rds is little if any.

I mainly shoot landscapes & video my 5yr old granddaughter. Just asking for opinions.
Thanks,
George
 
I prefer my 5DmkIII over my GH4 for still photo work. That being said, there is nothing wrong with the stills you can get out of the GH4. And I'm sure the GH5 will only improve.

Let's face it, even an iPhone can take great shots.
 
I really like my GH4 for video but as a long time owner I am no where near happy with its photographic quality.
 
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Like David said, even smartphones can take great shots nowadays. Look at DP Review's studio shot comparison tool to form your own opinion:

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/im...&x=-0.0039040923926688927&y=0.784932858003208

Play around with the settings: ISO, JPEG/RAW, and which part of the photo to look at.

I included the cameras mentioned so far in this thread: 5D MkIII, 70D, and Olympus E-M1 MkII (latest 20MP sensor from Olympus, and probably what is closest to what the GH5 will offer). I also threw in the GX8, which is Panasonic's previous 20MP attempt.

Even though sensors have improved somewhat in the last few years (I understand that most of the improvement has happened in in-camera processing, rather than the sensors themselves), it makes sense that if all sizes of chips progress at roughly the same rate the different sizes will maintain the same difference in performance relative to each other. Hence, it seems to me that APS-C still has maintained somewhere near a 1-stop advantage relative to MFT, and full frame has a near 1-stop advantage relative to APS-C. It's interesting to note that there can be quite a bit of variation in performance among cameras of the same chip size even.

Whether that advantage is worth things like larger and heavier gear and other disadvantages (and also some advantages), only you can answer for yourself. Don't forget that with the IBIS technology in both Panasonic and Olympus, if you shoot a lot of handheld photos you can gain up to 5-6 stops exposure time before camera shake affects the image compared to a Canon camera, counteracting the inherent low-light advantage in many situations (but not all, of course).

Edit: Iain beat me to the same idea. :)
 
GARoss said:
...I mainly shoot landscapes & video my 5yr old granddaughter. Just asking for opinions.
Thanks, George
Click to expand...
If you shoot a lot handheld - and good luck shooting a 5-year old off a tripod - you should benefit from the 5-Axis stabilization that is present on G85, A6500, EM1 MKII and (presumably) on GH5.

There's a YouTube reviewer that just tested A6500 with the Sigma 18-35mm (with the Sigma to E adapter) and was able to get noisy but still reasonable quality video clips at 25600. For the day time and AF, the native Sony glass would do the trick even better.
 
DLD said:
If you shoot a lot handheld - and good luck shooting a 5-year old off a tripod - you should benefit from the 5-Axis stabilization that is present on G85, A6500, EM1 MKII and (presumably) on GH5.
Click to expand...
The GX85 also has Dual-IS/5-Axis.
 
Shenan said:
Like David said, even smartphones can take great shots nowadays. Look at DP Review's studio shot comparison tool to form your own opinion:

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/im...&x=-0.0039040923926688927&y=0.784932858003208

Play around with the settings: ISO, JPEG/RAW, and which part of the photo to look at.

I included the cameras mentioned so far in this thread: 5D MkIII, 70D, and Olympus E-M1 MkII (latest 20MP sensor from Olympus, and probably what is closest to what the GH5 will offer). I also threw in the GX8, which is Panasonic's previous 20MP attempt.

Even though sensors have improved somewhat in the last few years (I understand that most of the improvement has happened in in-camera processing, rather than the sensors themselves), it makes sense that if all sizes of chips progress at roughly the same rate the different sizes will maintain the same difference in performance relative to each other. Hence, it seems to me that APS-C still has maintained somewhere near a 1-stop advantage relative to MFT, and full frame has a near 1-stop advantage relative to APS-C. It's interesting to note that there can be quite a bit of variation in performance among cameras of the same chip size even.

Whether that advantage is worth things like larger and heavier gear and other disadvantages (and also some advantages), only you can answer for yourself. Don't forget that with the IBIS technology in both Panasonic and Olympus, if you shoot a lot of handheld photos you can gain up to 5-6 stops exposure time before camera shake affects the image compared to a Canon camera, counteracting the inherent low-light advantage in many situations (but not all, of course).

Edit: Iain beat me to the same idea. :)
Click to expand...

With good light they all look good. ISO @25600 is revealing just how much of an advantage FF has over 43rds & APS-C. Although there are many advantages shooting video, the fact is I shoot far more photos than video. I guess the direction I need to go is clear. FF or APS-C + at least some 4k video features.
 
I'll be honest, If I were not shooting professionally I would not own any of these cameras nor the truckload of gear I have now. I would simply use a smart phone for shooting my grandkids. Which is what I do now. :grin:
 
GARoss said:
With good light they all look good. ISO @25600 is revealing just how much of an advantage FF has over 43rds & APS-C. Although there are many advantages shooting video, the fact is I shoot far more photos than video. I guess the direction I need to go is clear. FF or APS-C + at least some 4k video features.
Click to expand...


In my opinion, the delta between the GH4 and the Canon 70D is a wash from the noise perspective, with the edge to the GH4 due to noise being primarily in the luma channel, much akin to film grain. Canon's noise is also very high in the chroma channel, giving that ugly rainbow Skittles noise. I'm very happy with the quality of properly exposed, less than ISO 3200 GH4 RAW files processed through Capture One, not so happy with Lightroom processed results.

But you must define what is acceptable to you. Some define a great stills camera with excellent initial focus accuracy, while others need very high frame rates and deep buffers. Others still may need great straight out of camera jpegs or excellent skin tones. I heard you shoot landscapes, and if the landscapes happen to be at the top of a mountain you had to hike up, now small camera size and weight are quite important.

So the real question is, how often do you shoot at ISO 25600? My opinion is if you do that a lot, you either need fast glass (>= f/1.8) or flash. If flash won't cut it for your application, then your squarely in the corner case camp and even the Canon 5D III/IV won't make you happy. You better look at the Sony A7S II if you need night vision capable stills cam and 4K video in the same package.
 
GARoss said:
I am a retired amateur photographer / videographer & do not intend to shoot with the GH5 professionally. I'm looking at the GH5 with great interest but concerned about the cameras photo abilities. I know the video quality will be amazing compared to my current camera, Canon EOS-70d, but wondered if the GH5's photo quality would be on par or similar to it. I do know sensors have improved greatly over the years so maybe the difference between APS-C & 43rds is little if any.

I mainly shoot landscapes & video my 5yr old granddaughter
Click to expand...

If you are really interested in video, then the GH5 will not disappoint. And given the steps taken with the GX8x and the G8x, i'd venture to say that the photo side will also be excellent and an improvement over the GH4 (if you like Panasonic color science).

However, nobody has brought up the question of lenses. Since micro 43 is highly adaptable in that area, you should be able to use your existing Canon lenses with the use of an adapter, if that is something you want.

But if videoing only consists of your granddaughter, the GH5 maybe a little overkill. If you want to go Panasonic, the G8x is probably half the price of the forthcoming GH5, but with arguably 90+% of the video quality that non professionals require. It's weather sealed, does fabulous 4K, and with the remaining money you could get the 12-35mm f2.8 lens, or wait to see what the new 12-60mm Leica version brings to the table.

Details on the GH5 will be announced sooner rather than later, so if that camera is on your wish list, the improvements it brings all round will certainly be worth the wait.
 
stoneinapond said:
But if videoing only consists of your granddaughter, the GH5 maybe a little overkill. ....
Click to expand...

GH5 will be the first Panasonic 4k m4/3 camera which can be used with AF and 4k 60P would be very easy mode to record camcorder like clips with good motion. Cheaper older models with 24-30P and very slow AF needs ND-filters, manual focusing and cinematographic skills.
 
GARoss said:
With good light they all look good. ISO @25600 is revealing just how much of an advantage FF has over 43rds & APS-C. Although there are many advantages shooting video, the fact is I shoot far more photos than video. I guess the direction I need to go is clear. FF or APS-C + at least some 4k video features.
Click to expand...

To stoke the fire a bit, here's a link to DxO's sensor comparison of the 3 year old GH4 to the 3.5 year old 70D: overall the GH4 rates 74, the 70D 68, with the largest difference being in RAW DR - 12.8 vs 11.6. The 20MP GH5 is expected to be better in all aspects. In decent light (ISO 800 and below) I seriously doubt you could tell my GH4 16x20-24" prints from your 70D output.


https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Com...-Lumix-DMC-GH4-versus-Canon-EOS-70D___943_895


Video - no contest! In addition to UHD 4K and C-4K, the GH4 can shoot "4K Photo" frames of 8.3MP @ 30FPS in any aspect ratio (all with same MP's). The GH5, 18.7MP (6K Photo) at the same rate, with 5-axis IBIS. Here's an example of a 4K Photo video in 4:3 format to better capture stills from it of my granddaughter's Mexican dance group performance. With 4K dropped on a 1080p timeline, resolution and color depth are greatly improved over GH4's excellent native FHD output.

https://vimeo.com/167008005

Pete
 
Vesku said:
GH5 will be the first Panasonic 4k m4/3 camera which can be used with AF and 4k 60P would be very easy mode to record camcorder like clips with good motion. Cheaper older models with 24-30P and very slow AF needs ND-filters, manual focusing and cinematographic skills.
Click to expand...

You are correct. I'm looking forward to 60p, but emphasis should be placed on "camcorder like". Also, the G8x is hardly an older model.
 
Speaking of the G8x cameras, this is interesting (sorry if it was already posted and I missed it):

Panasonic G85 review – is there any need to get an Olympus E-M1 Mark II for video?
BY ANDREW REID (EOSHD) ON DECEMBER 19, 2016

Micro Four Thirds is increasingly going up-market and into pro territory, and unfortunately new Panasonic and Olympus cameras are getting more and more expensive by the day.

Thankfully the G85 is a pro camera without a pro price – it represents a genuine advance over the Panasonic GH4 with cleaner low light performance, better automatic white balance and of course 5 axis in-body stabilisation.

Of all the models to make an appeal to filmmakers this year (and there have been a few) the Panasonic G85 is perhaps my favourite and it costs half the price of the $2000 Olympus E-M1 II.

The G85 doesn’t just fill the gap until the Panasonic GH5. It will in fact live in 2017 as THE camera to get for under $1000.

I didn’t expect to like it when it came out....

Rest of the review:
http://www.eoshd.com/2016/12/panasonic-g85-review-need-get-olympus-e-m1-mark-ii-video/
 
Peter Berry said:
To stoke the fire a bit, here's a link to DxO's sensor comparison of the 3 year old GH4 to the 3.5 year old 70D: overall the GH4 rates 74, the 70D 68, with the largest difference being in RAW DR - 12.8 vs 11.6. The 20MP GH5 is expected to be better in all aspects. In decent light (ISO 800 and below) I seriously doubt you could tell my GH4 16x20-24" prints from your 70D output.


https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Com...-Lumix-DMC-GH4-versus-Canon-EOS-70D___943_895


Video - no contest! In addition to UHD 4K and C-4K, the GH4 can shoot "4K Photo" frames of 8.3MP @ 30FPS in any aspect ratio (all with same MP's). The GH5, 18.7MP (6K Photo) at the same rate, with 5-axis IBIS. Here's an example of a 4K Photo video in 4:3 format to better capture stills from it of my granddaughter's Mexican dance group performance. With 4K dropped on a 1080p timeline, resolution and color depth are greatly improved over GH4's excellent native FHD output.

https://vimeo.com/167008005

Pete
Click to expand...

Thanks Pete & all who have posted with their advice. It is most appreciated!

Maybe I've blown the low light issue out of proportion. With my 70d I'm shooting @ 800 ISO indoors all natural light non moving objects. If the GH5 or OM-D E-M1 Mark II can handle that, which I believe they can, I'm in.

As I mentioned, I am an amateur photographer. I only know enough to be dangerous :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG) ! At 65 yrs old & handicapped I don't plan on hiking much. :happy: If the 70d had image stabilization & 4k I'd keep it. I was hot for the 5dmk4 until I learned it shot 4k Mjpeg video & now looking elsewhere. The Sony a99ii looks good but heavy. I do believe 43rds would suit me better as I mentioned, I am handicapped. Lighter camera, lighter lenses. The Panasonic GH5, GX8 & Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II are looking better.
 
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