Need advice for new equipment!

M. Gilden

M. Gilden

Canon DSLR Moderator
I've been lurking and reading for months, and I could really use some advice from the community... I'd like to go DSLR to replace my aging DVX100a, but I have a couple of hesitations I'm hoping you guys can help me sort out.

Just to explain the kind of work I'm doing with it:
I'm a studio animator that is finding myself behind the camera more and more often these days, mostly for talking-head style interviews or product demonstration.
Since most of the work I'm filming with it is for internet broadcast, the lack of HD has never been a problem until recently.

I was eying some of the HD versions of my camera, such as the HVX, but I'm hesitant to spend that kind of money especially if most of my work doesn't require it yet. However, it is my understanding that I can get a comparable setup using these new DSLR cameras for much less of an investment.

So here is my dilemma:
1)Audio. I've heard about the audio problems caused by AGC in many cases. I'm currently using a Sennheiser wireless lapel mic system into my DVX, and I've been quite happy with it. Would I still be able to use my mic system, and would the sound be significantly worse? I've seen people discussing using external recording devices and syncing up the sound in post... is that still the recommended option? Or is Canon planning on releasing an update to finally fix this annoying issue already? Seems like a lot of extra work and yet more equipment for something my camera currently does seamlessly.

2)Recording length. Ok, I really don't like doing live event type recording, but I've recorded a lecture once or twice to pull clips out of afterwards. I like knowing I can do that. As I understand it, these cameras don't allow you to record clips longer than 15 min or so. Is there a way around that? I'm not sure how important this really would be, and I think I can always revert back the DVX for those situations if I need to. Or rent an HD cam.

3)Which model? The 7D was instantly my choice over the 5d when I read about its price and native NTSC compatible modes. However, it has come to my attention that the T2i is identical in video to the 7D, and in fact is even less of an investment. And it uses SD cards (I sold all my CF cards years ago- everything else I use has SD already). I'm wondering if the 7D will perhaps get more updates geared towards professionals (ie. firmware update to disable agc?) since the T2i seems a cheaper and more consumer oriented model. Is there any reason to prefer the 7D in my situation?

Other than that, I really like the idea of a small camera that is affordable and great in low-light situations (for on-location clips). I also like the fact that I can take some really nice high quality stills as an added perk.

But at the same time, I think people take me more seriously when I pull out a bulky professional looking camera (sometimes clients want to feel like they are getting a lot for their money- a guy I work with sometimes adds accessories to his camera, like a directional mic or external battery pack, just to bulk it up so he looks more complicated- LOL). Add to this the added complication of recorded synced audio and the possible inability of recording lectures, and I honestly don't know what to make of all this.

Help a newbie out!

Note: Wow, I can't believe this is my first post- I've been reading this forum since I got my DVX years ago!
 
Have you looked at the 60D? The latest from Canon. Solves some of the nagging issues for video.

I think that the 12 min record limit is overblown, unless you are shooting concerts or nature footage for National Geographic (though others may provide stories of horror, I haven't heard any).

12 mins is a loooooong film mag.

If I were interviewing someone that could talk for 12 mins. uninterrupted, I would shut off before the camera. :-KnockedOut(D
 
LOL- fair enough. I actually hadn't heard much about the 60D- it seems to offer an option to disable AGC, which is nice, and also has the dual sensor setup that the 7D offers for better low light. Interesting indeed.

But, after doing some searches on audio quality, I can't seem to find anyone who will vouch for the 60D. One guy claims there is a terrible hissing, etc, others blame the 3.5mm jack and poor pre-amp for bad audio even with AGC off. Very dissapointing. That means I'll probably have to go external either way, even if they eventually release a firmware update for the 7D/t2i.
 
You're stuck with the audio issue. I run sound into my hv30 and use that as a master audio recorder. Seperate sound is a necessary evil with dslrs - at least with the current generation.
 
1. You have to use an external audio recorder to get proper quality. Syncing is really easy if you give yourself markers, which is especially easy when it comes to doing sit down interviews where you have time to do so. You do have to budget for this, of course.

2. To be clear, the Canon cameras are limited at 4GB, which is usually around 15 minutes. Consider how often you've actually shot 16 minute clips out of necessity. I do own a GH1 for this very reason, but I do events.

3. If you are not using it for stills the T2i is the most cost effective Canon choice. Even if you are the T2i is good enough for most people. There really isn't a reason you would need a 7D. I prefer the 7D over the GH1, but don't forget that it exists, too. That firmware update will never be made, since disabling AGC requires enabling an audio interface; it's too big a deal for a simple update.

If size matters or not depends on your clients. Most of mine have heard of HDSLRs, or I'm able to sell them on it. If they're set on something larger I rent, which is an option you should seriously consider when it matters. Small setups work really well for weddings and events where you can get places others can't and get footage of people without intimidating them, but it doesn't impress the corporates as much and can be a pain to deal with. That part of the decision is entirely dependent on you.
 
Got it.
Great, now I have another choice to consider... the GH1/GH2. Thanks alot for making this more complicated! :P
I've been happy with my DVX, so another Panasonic would be welcome... but it seems like I might get more for my money with the Canon options. How well does the GHx perform in low light compared to the 7D and 60D's double sensors?

Also, totally forgot, can these stream out live video? I've heard that the resolution is reduced when recording, but what if I want to output to an external recorder (firestore, real time broadcasting box, etc)?
 
outputting to a firestore with any of the canon cameras wont work well because the on screen overlay cannot be removed. The 7d will output HD while recording. Im not sure about the 60d.
 
sorry, I meant to put down more, but class started and the professor had us shut our laptops.

Now, I was here:

60D. I think of the Canon DSLR's that it is best suited for video (the 5D is a better tool in certain situations, but ALL AROUND the 60D wins). The articulating screen is a God-send, IMO! I was DPing a music video this weekend and we had some high dolly shots (6, 7 feet off the ground) that would have been impossible to monitor effectively with my T2i. That being said, if you have the money to and want a larger rig with a proper field monitor, the 7D's ability to output HD while recording is awesome.

The actual video that they cameras shoot is identical (except for the 5D, of course)

I am using my T2i to shoot a huge interview based project right now and the video limit is absolutely not a problem. Very easy to work around. getting the sound off camera is sorta a necessity though... (I use an H4n and love it)

I would also recommend investing in a light kit. I have a cheap one, but even that one make the footage sooooooooo much better! learning how to light effectively is more valuable than whatever camera you have (in my humble opinion)


Just my two cents on the topic.
 
JPM Photography said:
sorry, I meant to put down more, but class started and the professor had us shut our laptops.

Now, I was here:

60D. I think of the Canon DSLR's that it is best suited for video (the 5D is a better tool in certain situations, but ALL AROUND the 60D wins). The articulating screen is a God-send, IMO! I was DPing a music video this weekend and we had some high dolly shots (6, 7 feet off the ground) that would have been impossible to monitor effectively with my T2i. That being said, if you have the money to and want a larger rig with a proper field monitor, the 7D's ability to output HD while recording is awesome.

The actual video that they cameras shoot is identical (except for the 5D, of course)

I am using my T2i to shoot a huge interview based project right now and the video limit is absolutely not a problem. Very easy to work around. getting the sound off camera is sorta a necessity though... (I use an H4n and love it)

I would also recommend investing in a light kit. I have a cheap one, but even that one make the footage sooooooooo much better! learning how to light effectively is more valuable than whatever camera you have (in my humble opinion)


Just my two cents on the topic.
Click to expand...

Yes, remember I'm coming from a DVX100 here... I already have studio lights, reflectors, wireless & condenser mics, and even a boom pole! A suppose a light kit would be cool to have for on-location setups. I've taken down the studio lights and brought them with me, but they're really not that rugged.
Meanwhile, looks like I'll need to invest in an H4N as my fancy audio appears to be useless on any of the DSLRs input.

The output to external monitor is important because I have one client who I record regularly that has me hook up to a 40" display to see how he is centered when we shoot. I don't think he cares if it is HD, though (right now using SD off the DVX), so I think that's ok, as long as there is some kind of live feed at all.

I was more interested in the HD output for the firestore option, though. I was wondering if that might be a way to get around the 4GB filesize limit. But if I really can't remove the menu and display icons for the live view anyway, that would be pointless.

Decisions, decisions. Thanks for all your input!
 
dishe said:
But, after doing some searches on audio quality, I can't seem to find anyone who will vouch for the 60D. One guy claims there is a terrible hissing, etc, others blame the 3.5mm jack and poor pre-amp for bad audio even with AGC off. Very dissapointing. That means I'll probably have to go external either way, even if they eventually release a firmware update for the 7D/t2i.
Click to expand...

The audio mic in on the 60D is better than the DR07 mic in, as far as noise. Most of this was shot using the in camera audio with a connected AT897 powered by a AA. http://vimeo.com/17450671

the only scene that used an external audio source was the kitchen conversation. The Audio is definitely usable for non-critical work. But the fact that there is no way to monitor the sound once you get going is disconcerting. (no headphone out, no audio bars while recording.)

I like the fact that I can use the 60D in a pinch, but still can't trust it 100%.
 
James, that's impressive use of the onboard audio, and just nice shooting with that 60D in general!

I've love to hear more about the behind the scenes of that one- The smooth shots couldn't have been handheld, right?


Just to update everyone: I was discussing with a friend who sells cameras for B&H, and apparently he's got some refurb T2i's in stock now with the stock lens kit for between $600-$700! I like a lot about the 60D more, but do I like it $400 more? I'm not sure... I don't want to invest too much in this now because I'm scared that somewhere down the road I'll still want to invest in a full-on video camera like the HVX.
To make matters even more complicated in my decision process, the guy was telling me that Sony's A33 and A55 have won camera of the year from Popular Photographer, and support stabilization and autofocus during filming, both things that the Canons don't do.
Oddly enough, I've found little to no conversation on this forum about those cameras, and I wonder how they compare. I actually didn't realize those features might be something I've taken for granted with my DVX.
James0b57's video looks great there, though. Is it hard to keep a walking subject in focus without AF? And those outdoor walking shots without stabilization must have been difficult as well, right?
 
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