ncje's A1 Thread

Noel Evans

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Yeah anyway. Ill just keep updating this as I go.

Day 1 - sick
Day 2 - sick
Day 3 - The usual rubbish. Open box, slap face been to out of it to read manual. Charge up the batteries (got additional 970g).

Read manual for five minutes, plug in power and am away. Wonder why the cam wont let me access recording menus (slaps face - lock engaged on tape bay, the lock basically powers the camera down but retains all current in cam settings. Guess its useful if you need to take five from a setup or test shoot and your only half done - otherwise you can save in your preset anyway. Lock retains all focus, zoom settings also).

3 hour power session of manual and camera.

1 hour set up of m2 (had to shim the adapter itself to fit with my cavision set up). Ill do more on that on m2 forum tomorrow. Got the cam aligned and working correctly with the adapter).

For those coming from a DVX this cam is heavier. But read the specs for that. To me doesnt feel as sturdy as a DVX or HVX.

This cat has a feast of manual controls that will not leave you short in just about any situation apart from variable frame rates other than 24, 30 and 60. Anything you can imagine is adjustable including individualised controls for Red, Blue and Green gain control. Ill go into some more detail on some tomorrow - but as you know the fine control of -50 to a plus 50 setting is a great feature. The image you get out of it without any CC at all is excellent. I therefor envisage using CTB or CTO to get your colours close to final on the day will hold you in good stead to working with the codec.

20x zoom what can I say, very nice indeed. Coupled with the focus metering. I did a test shot with no monitor using just the focusing tools the cam has. Then i focused up with the monitor. Trecked down to the second floor to the plasma and ran them back. The cam alone focused better by about 5cms. Original shot distance was actually 4 meters in length. I then tested the cams distance metering recommendation with a tape measure. Right on the money.

Anyone that says the Canon 24f is not true progressive, get a life have a read and get some hands on experience. Looks beautiful. The colour rendition is also beautiful.

Enough of the words. Tomorrow I will be shooting for about 5 hours all for this thread. Cam alone, with m2, both with and without lighting. Lowlight, brightlight.... you get the picture - as much as is possible. Keeping in mind my recovering body is still pretty tired.

DAY 4 - has started, couple of things to do before I get going - send DVD to client etc. But realised I missed something yesterday I found as a pretty neat feature that I wasnt aware of at all.

The cam via the DISPLAY SETUP menu has an aspect guide. You can choose: 4:3 , 13:9, 14:9, 1.66:1, 1.75:1, 1.85:1 and 2.35:1. Once selected a white border will appear on your screen. Perfect for framing. Now the cool thing is as its only a GUIDE for framing. If you do get it slightly off you can then reframe in post just like you would when shooting the DVX at 4:3 and framing for a 16:9 crop.

Cont.......

Today was a comedy of errors. Started when I woke up. Set up cam, changed some of the presets including gain. I altered the 3 preset gains, leaving one at +12, forgot, ended up shooting daylight shots (polariser on and ND engaged) with +12 gain. Disaster 1.

CLIP1

Anyway heres the lovely gain clip.

Camera settings were: Black - Press, Detail -3 only settings I used today. More tomorrow.

Shutter speed and fstop were altered as I went but I tried to retain f5.6 for everything (yes with +12 gain). Very annoying as +12 gain in this situation really does mess up your shot, was so pissed at this one. First shot was actually of a crappy brown tinted phone booth door using a polariser to turn reflection way up then to nothing in shot. Pidgeons were shot at shutter speed 1/8000th. I took a screencap of one to show the clarity in each frame.... even with the crappy (yes I am saying it again) +12 gain. all shoulder mounted stuff, so not very smooth
Link Removed - see latest

CLIP2

Went into a lowlit forest and shot underexposed, people wanted to see how the grain was so here you are( No.1 request actually). Keep in mind that this in parts is woefully underexposed for a reason. again all shoulder mounted stuff, so not very smooth. Just some messing around with focus etc. Gain was set at -3 for everything from here in on all day 4 shots. There is a moment you will see the brightness go way up... thats -3 to +12 gain adjustment - thought someone could use that example.

Link Removed - see latest


CLIP3

3 point lighting setup. I used a 600 arri as a key (bounced of a board) and used the spill for fill plus a kicker. Bad me, tripods are in the car again too lazy (tired) to drag them up (we do live in a three story house so it is a distance). Anyway as the cam was not secured theres a little bounce in the clip - sorry for that but you have to understand where I am coming from the last 4 days. Did take a screencap not fullsize as it was a tad large for most to view I thought. I did attempt this shot with the M2, but quickly realised the m2 needs a spacer to work with the A1 so will pick one up tomorrow(ACTUALLY NO SPACER IS NEEDED - JUST MY POOR EYESIGHT ON THE DAY - SORRY FOR THE MISNOMER). FYI pooh and Elmo give a **** interview. I did attempt to slim pooh down but living in that wood eating honey (sugar) all day and sleeping the fat lazy git, hard job.

http://www.scarlet-films.com/A1/third.mov

m2T file of pooh under lights - like 5 seconds
http://www.scarlet-films.com/A1/light.m2t
pooh.jpg


DAY 5

Ok heres a clip first few shots on the m2, little steadicam (with a not tight enough gplatz causing a little bumping - see merlin setup thread) followed by just a couple of boring clips I was testing some settings on. Last two were same as below except second to last had colour gain turned up to 50, Last Clip had colour gain back at 0, with green gain turned up to 25. Incidently varying the red blue and green gains can give you just about any color cast you could ask for. Setting the Colour Gain to 0 = black and white.

So heres total settings I used:

Gamma - Normal
Knee - Auto
Black - Press
Pedestal - -3
Setup Level - 0
Sharpness - 0
H Detail Freq - High
DHV - 0
Coring - 0
Nr1 - 0
Nr2 - 0
Colour Matrix - Cine2
Colour Gain - 0
Red Gain - 0
Green gain - 0
Blue Gain - 0
Rest also - 0

Now time to capture output clips etc takes a bit of time. Today I shot 5 tapes full, not all captured yet - just some sections for this. So at this stage there are no raw m2t files. If there is one you want from this clip let me know and Ill post it up tomorrow. And yes, we often move a car and draw on our driveway :)

http://www.scarlet-films.com/A1/fourth.mov

DAY 6

I am working around Shinjuku tomorrow. After that - should be around 6ish? Not a long job tomorrow, will be shooting for some City shots plus some 1/3 shutter car shots off a bridge (about one whole tape) speed it up etc.

Well early out so Shinjuku was a quite a wait so went back to the homestead. Found a spot near home, then five minutes into it the wind picks up (cold wind), so having just recovered from something I conceded to the cold air and left. :S Anyway a screencap of what I did shoot.

speed.jpg


DAY 7

Too tired and its cold. :P Hit me with those requests.

November 10

Actually took these shots a few days ago when more people were asking for night shots... seems theres an abundance around now. Basically this will end uo in the stock footage library anyway so no waste.

Any mt2 request - please ask.

Link is only 7.5mb

http://www.scarlet-films.com/A1/GINZANIGHTSCENE.mov

Today got some footage of a nice bright day. Took the daughter for a walk in her "shaky cart" with no OIS on. Then a few oher shots I threw together. This was shot very fast on the run. Used a polariser on every shot but the last small timelapse piece.
http://www.scarlet-films.com/A1/SUNNY.mov
 
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Excellent, thanks for that. I'm eagerly awaiting your next installment.

On the 25F (24F) thing - I love the look too (Based on footage I've seen), but I was at an open day yesterday and got to 'play' with the camera for about an hour. There was a Canon rep/tech guy there who said that it wasn't progressive and all it did was drop a field, thus reducing resolution! Personally I think he's wrong and they're doing something more clever - but that was from a Canon guy!

I really like the cam., only feature missing for me is the flip function.

On another board I've seen some discussion on the noise of the camera at low light - so please get some definitive footage for us on that!

Thanks again

Simes
 
Just dropping a field?! No way! That would halve the resolution, and we all know it doesn't do that. He was messing with you or more likely a Canon engineer who was hired to design the handle assembly!

Anyway, I love mine too! So beautiful, both the cam and it's images. I'd like to go through the H1 presets and capture images of different looks in the A1. Probably set that up tomorrow, go go step by step tweaking stuff.

This camera is unbelievable! Well balanced too, 5 lbs. is more than my 1.5 lb. GS150, but I'll take it!

NCJE, did your 970G get stuck in the internal bay? Mine was tough getting out, I had to attach tape like a 'pull-tab' to make sure I could get it out in the field.
 
Thank you all for sharing your first impressions. Here in US East Coast we're still waiting for the call from our dealers. It shouldn't take long I hope.

Canon's progressive-like F mode was discussed many times. Claim that it relies on one field is complete myth. I have no idea why it still exists.

Canon do not reveal how it works, but imo, it's closer to true progressive scan than in-camera deinterlacing. I think sensors scan images in two parallel scans (one for each field, but simultaneously), and then signals are transfered using interline method and filtering, sacrificing only small fraction of the resolution thanks to smart readout by the image processor. Because of licensing issues, the process could not be strictly progressive, but the results are very similar, in fact, better than any software deinterlacers I have tried. I'm sure Canon XL-H1 users agree with that.
 
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ncje said:
Tomorrow I will be shooting for about 5 hours all for this thread. Cam alone, with m2, both with and without lighting. Lowlight, brightlight.... you get the picture - as much as is possible. Keeping in mind my recovering body is still pretty tired.
DAY 4 - Coming soon

Sounds exactly like what everybody here is waiting for. Thanks a bunch in advance. :thumbup:
 
Thanks for getting this thread going, ncje. Hope you can handle a bit of a bandwidth hit! ;) Let me know if you need any help.
 
I echo your thoughts, rawfa!

ncje, we are all very excited to see how the camera performs... thanks for doing this for those of us that don't have the camera yet. :)
 
Thanks for braving the light of day Ncje, hope you feel better soon, and no, not just so you can give us more info :)
By the way, have you found any work around for the camera not having an image flip function when using your M2? I know about using a separate LCD, which I use often with my DVX, but it is not always practical, and if you want to be able to focus, well you need to get a really nice HD LCD. If only a magnet would work :).
 
scharky said:
Thanks for braving the light of day Ncje, hope you feel better soon, and no, not just so you can give us more info :)
By the way, have you found any work around for the camera not having an image flip function when using your M2? I know about using a separate LCD, which I use often with my DVX, but it is not always practical, and if you want to be able to focus, well you need to get a really nice HD LCD. If only a magnet would work :).

Well the easiest solution I have found thus far without really trying anything:

Pop out the LCD. Turn it 180 degrees. Between about 190 degrees and 270 the image flips for mirror mode. SO at 190 I only need to crane a little to see the image right side up. The left to right movement is still opposite however.
 
This thread can make history... We're waiting as soon as possible. And 24F @lowlighting (see the Pappas* XL-H1 clips, please: Movie House and Bakery if I'm not wrong).

* BTW, do anyone know news from Michael? Maybe you Barlow? How is he? What is he doing? We miss him. As well, his contributions. Give him my regards if you can. :)
 
meta4 said:
Just dropping a field?! No way! That would halve the resolution, and we all know it doesn't do that.
Well actually it kinda does. but dropping a frame doesnt lose Half its more like, 35-40% less than Proggresive. I dont know the specifics, but its somethign to do with the way an interlace CCD reads. its actually not just half res, an interlace, field is reading information between the lines too, but usually its thrown away and in this case it jsut keeps all of it or somehting. i dunno barry explained it one in regrds to Cineframe30 and Cannons cinemode 30 on the XL1.
THe Xlh1 has the same response in 24f too. its 1080i is "fullres" its 24F is like 70% of full res. which still looks AMAZING. i love this line of cameras.

Elton! Emanuel!! please make mesound stupid and correct my drivel this into something coherent please.
 
Sorry gang made a small error today. On the first stuff I shot I had gain on +12db :S I set up the gain presets this morning, 1 as -3, 2 as 0 and 3 I left at +12. But when I got to shooting left it on +12 and adjusted around it. Sorry about that. Ill still post the clip and you can see what +12db gain does on a bright day when its totally unessecary. :P Did get some low light stuff. Still more to shoot clips up soon.

Should have asked Elton earlier though: Need best output options from FCP using H.264 for web viewing. Want to try and retain reasonable size.
 
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Hey Ncje, did you get to try it out with the M2 yet? After reading the A1's manual I'm even more blown away by this camera's image control options. It's simply incredible what you can do. Of course, on the paper it all looks astonishing...but on practice we'll relly on you to let us know what this babe can do.
 
hi ncje. the footage looks great. i noticed you mentioned using a spacer with the a1/m2. if you find you need a spacer, i think that either your m2 hasn't been tweaked, or your a1 is zoomed in too far. i found that once i moved the m2 motor (just a few hairs above it's minimal position), i could zoom in to just where the motor and ground glass edges leave the screen together, and achieve focus on the ground glass even with the a1 pushed completely against the m2 (without even having to extend the rubber lip). spacers work fine, but less distance between the lens and ground glass is ideal.
 
TimurCivan said:
meta4 said:
JTHe Xlh1 has the same response in 24f too. its 1080i is "fullres" its 24F is like 70% of full res. which still looks AMAZING. i love this line of cameras.

Elton! Emanuel!! please make mesound stupid and correct my drivel this into something coherent please.

I think it's a pretty fair assessment/guess to say that the F modes lose about 20- 25% resolution...but only vertically. It's one of those things that you say "who cares!!" because it still looks like pretty damn good HD to anyone that watches it. The H1 has such high horizontal resolution that it really helps to make up for some of the vertical drop. Either way, it's a choice to be made as to what is acceptable perceptually, or not. I happen to like it a lot for what it is.

I never would've bought the XL-H1 if 24F mode didn't look right in HD.
 
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ncje said:
Should have asked Elton earlier though: Need best output options from FCP using H.264 for web viewing. Want to try and retain reasonable size.

Unless you want to post a longer piece, honestly, I think most everyone would prefer shorter clips in raw .m2t format. (even just 5 seconds is useful) Use DVHSCap or HDVxDV (free demo) to capture in this format. This way there's no question as to how much of the noise or compression artifacts are h.264 induced.
 
Yeah good point. Ive updated first post - now has m2t of pooh under lighting.

From todays shots I will add the QT variety and mt2s. Cheers Elton.
 
meta4 said:
NCJE, did your 970G get stuck in the internal bay? Mine was tough getting out, I had to attach tape like a 'pull-tab' to make sure I could get it out in the field.

Sorry missed this first time around. No, when I press the little grey release tab it pops out about halfway like a piece of toast from a toaster.
 
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