Native 24P/25p settings/problems discussion

Chris Light said:
crunchy? or "cranky". just wondering.
Click to expand...

I think that the answer is not the most appropriate, at least not appropriate for this forum. However, it had some positive consequences after all.

Since I am on vacation and having only laptop with me, I used Avisynth and VirtualDub combination to see the video (mov file) in original resolution and frame-by-frame in both directions. It seems that the mentioned combination produces some fuzziness in preview window. However, when I copied the frame and observed the frame in picture editor (since I wanted to show some parts of the picture), it became sharper. I cannot explain why it happens. Now the picture is better and up to my standards.
 
Wow..... my worst fears have come true...

Shooting yesterday for a friend I was excited to be using my GH1 with the native 24p. I had some really good luck with the "static shot" issue and thought that maybe I had done something that had taken care of it. Reduced contrast and sharpness to -2.

So the scene involved a car rolling up fro mthe side view and someone switching places with the driver and the car rolling off. There were trees in the background but I didn;t think it was going to be a huge deal. So I hit record. The camera rolls and deals with the still life of the trees perfectly. The car rolls up, driver gets out... they say their lines... switch places and the car rolls away and person walks out of scene. All I can think is "wow, that was perfect". I'm about to hit the record button and just as im about to apply pressure to stop the recording I get the dreaded "recording has stopped due to limitations of the card speed"

This has proved a coupel things to me... I just don't know which way to go.....

a) Just take out the native 24p from the firmware and use the new voltaicHD2 (which is actually pretty nice ;)

b) Go out and buy a t2i and not have to deal with any of this stuff....

Why oh why is there something making me hold on to my little gh1.... I can;t lovw it that much just because of an articulating screen can I? hahaha
 
I'm not sold on the whole Native 24p is a better picture thing. I thought I was but I've been pixel peeping too much lately and when I go back over my testing and when I randomize my testing I'm not seeing the difference I thought I saw.

I'm starting to think what I saw was more of a placebo effect but at this point I don't know anymore.
 
philiplipetz said:
If you were using NeoScene to remove the pulldown it is a bug in their program. I communicated with them last year extensively about this, and posted some examples on DVXuser.
Picture51-1.jpg
Click to expand...

Hey philip,

Yes that's what I'm talking about.

I Sent a full report to David Newman with images and analysis showing same file render with Chroma fix on and off showing either way- the pulldown has a bug- as well then I rendered the same clip through voltaichd from ( http://www.shedworx.com/voltaichd-features ) and it didn't do it- rendered a clean image.

Cinform Neoscene has a serious bug, and it NEEDs to be addressed. It's funny I can remember Cineform complaining that Apple would not address things years ago to make it easier for them to migrate into the Mac platform. Now Cineforem is doing that same very thing- as they were complaining about Apple.

I'm disturbed that they've known about this for awhile, and have yet to address it.

However this very forum shows us that a single intelligent person as Vitaliy can write code to make a camera do what it was never ever designed to do.

Cineform can choose to sit on the side lines and not fix their very own code- or at least address it publicly on their site- setting it straight why, or what is to happen either way about the issue.

However silence is simply wrong.


Pappas
 
Last edited:
c.cook88 said:
Wow..... my worst fears have come true...
Click to expand...

If "C'" settings are not working for you in 24PN with a class 10 card-

Go with: a) Just take out the native 24p from the firmware and use the new voltaicHD2 (which is actually pretty nice ;)

The Canon will not be anywhere near as good as the GH1 with new code.

Pappas
 
I might try something tonight, dunno if it will actually work though. I might try to do pulldown in TMPGenc, transcode to cineform and output into a MOV file just to see what happens.

I'm wondering if there is a bug in the way Neoscene writes the MOV file as I don't have these problems in AVI format. I don't have a way to output a MOV file from neoscene on PC so I have to do it in this round-about way.

I don't know much of anything about MOV files or how the captured files are compressed into them.
 
Hi- I've just switched over to 24Pn with the 40-50-70 settings and can see a subtle, but definite improvement in overall clarity and sharpness over the 60i material. And I'm only running a class 4 Kodak card, but haven't had any issues with errors so far, but then I rarely let a shot run more than 40 seconds or so.
 
mitchell1074 said:
Hi- I've just switched over to 24Pn with the 40-50-70 settings and can see a subtle, but definite improvement in overall clarity and sharpness over the 60i material. And I'm only running a class 4 Kodak card, but haven't had any issues with errors so far, but then I rarely let a shot run more than 40 seconds or so.
Click to expand...

Hey... try pointing it at a tree thats not moving and in bright sunlight.

If it works for you, then I want to know exactly what you did so I can emulate! haha

let us know!
 
Damn. I was running 40,42,45 without 24p Native and everything seemed perfect. No errors even when shooting trees and grass that previously gave me errors. I pulled up the new Pappas chart and bam! Error :(
 
Alright... whose the wiseguy that didn't tell me pulldown was about a million times better and faster with compressor than with neoscene and voltaic. HAHA

I bought neoscene about a year ago because I really wanted the best pulldown. Unfortunately because I'm not a hollywood producer, I really couldn't care about the tradeoff I'm getting with the supposed "best pulldown software" vs. having to encode every second of every clip... yuck

So today I get voltaicHD2... way cheaper.... hear it's not as good... but I loved how I could parse the clip to encode only what I wanted. Still it seemed to take forever and a day to transcode to prores and remove pulldown.

So I find a tutorial about using compressor to remove pulldown from clips already logged by fcp. I understand that compressor doesnt have the extra task of encoding the mts files to prores, so it shouldnt take as long.... but it was literally 1/10th the time.... and the quality with amazing.

I know there will be people who will tell me why cineform and voltaic are better. And for all I know it could be. But if you want a quick way to get 24p and you're not going to be releasing your film as a blockbuster, it might be something to try.

Once again, I understand very little when it comes to the world of film... so any comments are fully welcomed! :) And until we get native 24p working in all circumstances, this is going to be my plan of attack.
 
Hi- I've just switched over to 24Pn with the 40-50-70 settings and can see a subtle, but definite improvement in overall clarity and sharpness over the 60i material. And I'm only running a class 4 Kodak card, but haven't had any issues with errors so far, but then I rarely let a shot run more than 40 seconds or so.
Click to expand...
.

Yeah... what Cooke said. People keep coming on here and saying "I just shot in native 24p with "C" settings and had absolutely no errors". Hahaha! Until they try shooting the highly detailed static foliage scene of death! Muahahaha! :evil:
 
Hahaha! Until they try shooting the highly detailed static foliage scene of death! Muahahaha!
Click to expand...

Now that I can whip the camera around like a madman and get no mud why would I want to put a camera on a tripod and shoot static foliage? Especially in NYC? I am not even going to spend 3 minutes of my time even trying to.
 
Well, since you put it that way, why would anyone ever want to live in NYC? That place is a hole and most of the people living there are a-holes. Nothing personal against you. I just had a bad experience with one of the cops there. Politely asked him for directions back to the subway and he called me stupid for not knowing. Yeah, makes me want to just move right in!
 
c.cook88 said:
√So today I get voltaicHD2... way cheaper.... hear it's not as good...
Click to expand...

It's actually better than Cineform in many ways and not. You named one of them- mts trimming. Cheaper- better pulldown- and the ability to select any file format and output frame size you want to save the conversion to. There's more of course. Both are good for certain things I guess.

Pappas
 
Last edited:
I just had a bad experience with one of the cops there. Politely asked him for directions back to the subway and he called me stupid for not knowing. Yeah, makes me want to just move right in!
Click to expand...

Sorry about that. But you are lucky he didn't whacked you over the head with the stick! We had a very rough time with them for a while. You would be taking pictures or video in the street and like my friend use to say: they would walk up to you and ask: WHAT ARE YOU TAKING PICTURES OF? Even the mayor wanted to pass an ordinance that to be able to take pictures or film, even ordinary people needed all kinds of permits. People protested and didn't happened. After that the police relaxed a bit. But who can blame them for their manners, most of them come to work from Long Island! Oooops! LOL!
 
Last edited:
c.cook88 said:
So today I get voltaicHD2.
Click to expand...

I noticed one thing odd with VoltaicHD- it doesn't complete rendering on 24PN files. So if your converting 24PN.mts files it never completes( the progress % just keeps going going- i stopped it at 614%. Try it to verify. I also notice that in the info window that it lists the file as 23.98 1080i instead of 1080P with 24pn mts. This might be confusing the SW. Give it a try to let me know how it works for you. Then I went and dropped in a 1080i/24 file and selected 24P export in preferences and it completed. Please try.


Pappas
 
PappasArts said:
I noticed one thing odd with VoltaicHD- it doesn't complete rendering on 24PN files. So if your converting 24PN.mts files it never completes( the progress % just keeps going going- i stopped it at 614%. Try it to verify. I also notice that in the info window that it lists the file as 23.98 1080i instead of 1080P with 24pn mts. This might be confusing the SW. Give it a try to let me know how it works for you. Then I went and dropped in a 1080i/24 file and selected 24P export in preferences and it completed. Please try.


Pappas
Click to expand...

Hi pappas. I have rendered numerous files using voltaicHD2 and they have rendered completely. It even gives you an option to have a pop up window notify you of completion or a sound. As far as the info window... I'll have to reload the native 24p firmware before i can varify your second question, as I don't have any 24pN files left. Will get on that now. Maybe it's telling us something about why we're having issues with the firmware??
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top