Native 24P/25p settings/problems discussion
- Thread starter NavinRJohnson
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John Caballero
Veteran
Well, it seems that you, Brody and I are lucky enough to share cameras from the magical GH1 camera batch! They are rare but they do exist. It is amazing but first people could not shoot straight with a GH1 because of the "mud", now that is gone, I am a witness to that, now they find a million other "problems" wit the camera. I did the hack, 1,2,3 and went shooting, no problem whatsoever so far. Beautiful images. Like Barry said, a brand new camera. Before, even with the "mud" situation I was able to shoot pretty cool stuff, Now with the hack I can shoot PRETTY COOL STUFF!
rambooc1
Well-known member
Ok i'm converted.... C settings with 25p patch in 1080p is bloody awesome, even with my worst manual Canon FD cheapy zoom 35 - 75 f3.5 - 4.5 macro. The detail is amazing and my class 6 EagleTec 16gb card laps it up like a pussy drinkin' milk. 720p 50fps is faultless too .
We could stop this thing right here now and 99% of people would be happy. I'm sure the people having class 6 card issues will find they just need to swap brands, they are not created equal, just need to find a good matchup with the cam and stick with it.
The difference between B and C settings is worth going after as is 25p. It's in the details, i can finally see that.
Wow. Sorry, bit of an emotional post but for all those guys sitting on the fence, until you see it come out of your own camera you won't fully believe.
Pappas, ...that test chart should be burnt at the stake, 1080p lasts 15secs on that mother.
TIP... think it's been mentioned somewhere else, no need to pull the battery, just press play button and the power switch can turn the cam off.
We could stop this thing right here now and 99% of people would be happy. I'm sure the people having class 6 card issues will find they just need to swap brands, they are not created equal, just need to find a good matchup with the cam and stick with it.
The difference between B and C settings is worth going after as is 25p. It's in the details, i can finally see that.
Wow. Sorry, bit of an emotional post but for all those guys sitting on the fence, until you see it come out of your own camera you won't fully believe.
Pappas, ...that test chart should be burnt at the stake, 1080p lasts 15secs on that mother.
TIP... think it's been mentioned somewhere else, no need to pull the battery, just press play button and the power switch can turn the cam off.
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Filmkid2003
Well-known member
Niiiiice. Same here. Yeah, if only the product would actually do what the marketing people say it does. I'm drinking a Budweiser right now and, surprisingly, I'm not sitting between two hot chicks. Stupid billboards.
Yeah, try it out and tell me what happens. I call it the "foliage test of death". So far, since I got the Sandisk Extreme class 10 16GB card, I have been able to record at bitrate settings of 54,64,74 with no errors, even with the foliage test of death. That's at 24/60i. If I bump it up to 56,66,76, I start getting write speed errors when doing the foliage test of death. My GH1 says "Made in China". Don't know if that matters yet. I'm going to run the same test tomorrow and see if I can shoot the "C" settings with native 24p checked without getting write speed errors. :thumbsup:
Filmkid2003
Well-known member
Dude, you're insane. Clean the fog off of your glasses from panting over that stunning Red Rock footage and watch it again. ;-)
PappasArts
Veteran
That chart is doing it's job. I designed it to fail codecs. If you can pass this chart; that's one stable mother!
So you got 15secs on "c" settings. That's good. The longer you can go on the chart, the better. It's this kind of testing that made me fine tune my MJPEG 1440x1080 settings.
I tried the tip. Worked a few times, and some times it didn't. We it freezes, press the play button once and then switch camera to off- Correct?
Pappas
Mine is an early japanese model. I can run 24pN with video buffer =40 (Ptool 3.36 from 12/06) and 38/40/42 with a Sandisk extreme 30MB/s class 10 card. It works always, EXCEPT for very high detailed static scene, cam locked on tripod (see below). As reported somewhere else, if the leaves on the trees even show the slightest movement it is fine. If nothing moves at all I get the write error in about 2 - 6 seconds. By the way the same picture with my el cheapo Buffalo class 6 card, completely the same behaviour. I could have saved the money for the sandisk card.
I also tried the 40/46/50, 50/52/56, 50/56/60 settings an different video buffers. Interestingly, my feeling is that the image is softer and nicer (without showing mud) on the lower bitrate settings, and lowering the video buffer seemed to prevent freezing. I know people say that it has no effect and it was removed in later versions. But it seemed to have helped.
I will stay now with these settings. Quality is amazing, and I can live with a few freezes.
This is my test, see screenshot below.
Attachments
PappasArts
Veteran
Ian,
just shoot this new codec test chart - which is way better at crashing the codec. The key is to shoot it bright/contrasty of the monitor- None of my extreme settings have survived this chart.
Here is a link to the 2K chart: http://www.sendspace.com/file/5f0if7
I also posted a sample picture to see the chart. - However download the 2K version from the above link.
Pappas
Attachments
PappasArts
Veteran
Actually I remember that Kholi reported something similar. I did my tests with 40/46/50 settings and started with Video buffer 84. It crashed immediately with the scene above. With video buffer 50 out of 5 trials I could get 2 times stable recording. With video buffer 40 it almost works four out of 5 times.
Then I lowered my settings to 38/40/42, video buffer 40 and footage looks even better to my eye, and works also about 4 out of 5 times on this scene. The higher settings had very "hard" edges, almost oversharpened. Difficult to describe. I like the softer look (without resolution loss).
rambooc1
Well-known member
Yes that's right, you have to let the error message display for a short time (5 secs) than press play, message will change, then turn power off. Beats having to dismantle the tripod base covering the batt compartment all the time.
PappasArts
Veteran
PappasArts
Veteran
Thanks..!
I've cleaned the fog, but it's still not as sharp as some footage get on consumer and pro camcorders (Canon/Sony). I suppose that the air was not perfectly clean during shooting or there is some loss of resolution due to low bit-rate coding (about 9Mb/s). However, I ordered GH1 in order to check it by myself.
I am just wondering if anybody shoot resolution chart in 1920x1080 mode? I'd like to see the difference between 25p/50i and/or 24p/60i (original files or frame grabs).
Chris Light
Veteran
I've cleaned the fog, but it's still not as sharp as some footage get on consumer and pro camcorders (Canon/Sony). I suppose that the air was not perfectly clean during shooting or there is some loss of resolution due to low bit-rate coding (about 9Mb/s). However, I ordered GH1 in order to check it by myself.
crunchy? or "cranky". just wondering.
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philiplipetz
Veteran
Good question- I don't have any links to GOP. 15GOP is what you want IMO. It works for most of the industry and and it gives you the right balance for 24-over-60i.
Here's a quote from Convergent Design : ""For reference, I-Frame compression only considers spatial redundancies (within a given frame), while the more sophisticated MPEG2 Long-GOP considers both spatial and temporal redundancies (frame to frame).Comprehensive testing has shown that Long-GOP is typically 2 to 3 times more efficient than I-Frame-Only. So 180Mbps Long-GOP is roughly equivalent to 400 Mbps I-Frame, thus providing the highest possible quality from the nanoFlash. """
Now if you just take the basic numbers 50Mbits long gop is like 133 Mbps Iframe ( now that's a ballpark and not exact- however even if with it's in a + or even if minus 30, that is still amazing.. This is why I'm a Long GOP convert now. You just get so much more for so much less. It's efficient- and at even higher Mbits- it pays off. Now I could be wrong; and Barry could step in and set the the numbers straight.
LOL-
BTW- Anyone know what the Mbits allocation per frame or GOP sequence gain we get going to 24PN vs 60i for the same settings? I know when the 5D went from 30P to 24P that the codec went up in mbits. Going from 24-over-60i to 24Frames is 36 less video fields to deal with.
Here is a part of a frame today when I was testing 24-over-60i-.... When shooting 24pn, this does not exists. It was -2 on all, and processed in the latest NeoScene with GH1 fix chroma selected.
Pappas
If you were using NeoScene to remove the pulldown it is a bug in their program. I communicated with them last year extensively about this, and posted some examples on DVXuser.
Ian-T
Veteran
Bought it from B&H....so I don't think so.
Link? everytime I search the site crashes on me for some reason.
I've used Neoscene to do pulldown for a while and I've heard that there was a bug so I did some testing using TMPGenc as the pulldown and Cineform as the output codec and I could not detect a difference visually. Any more info would be awesome.