Native 24P/25p settings/problems discussion

Black_Ste said:
I am using 16 Gb Sandisk Extreme Class 10 .... Also note that Crunchy chart 2 have more details than the one I have seen from Pappas Art. Which chart are you using?
Click to expand...
Ok, so we use the same brand/class of the card, just different capacities. I think we should be seeing similar results, especially now that I incorporated kit lens back into testing. The chart I'm using is this one. I think any high detail chart will suffice for testing, as maximum bitrates I get on this one correspond to Video Bitrate FHD/SH setting in Ptool, so I know I tap out of all available target bandwidth.

Now, based on information in Vitaliy post this morning it would be very interesting to try the settings below. These are the known stable settings minus Limiting Bitrate patch, since he said REL patch obviates it anyway. Also, I noticed you checked both OBR 1 and 2. I think only OBR2 needs to be checked and adjusted. Want to give these a spin on your new testbed?

Code: 
[Settings]
Prevent version compare=Checked
Native 24p/25p=Checked
Video Bitrate FHD/SH=50000000
Video Bitrate H=[COLOR=White]40000000[/COLOR]
Video Bitrate L=32000000
Preset bitrate=500
Preset bitrate 2=500
[COLOR=White]Remove encoder limits=Checked
Overall Bitrate 2=6000000[/COLOR]0
 
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svecher said:
Ok, so we use the same brand/class of the card, just different capacities. I think we should be seeing similar results, especially now that I incorporated kit lens back into testing. The chart I'm using is this one. I think any high detail chart will suffice for testing, as maximum bitrates I get on this one correspond to Video Bitrate FHD/SH setting in Ptool, so I know I tap out of all available target bandwidth.

Now, based on information in Vitaliy post this morning it would be very interesting to try the settings below. These are the known stable settings minus Limiting Bitrate patch, since he said REL patch obviates it anyway. Also, I noticed you checked both OBR 1 and 2. I think only OBR2 needs to be checked and adjusted. Want to give these a spin on your new testbed?

Code: 
[Settings]
Prevent version compare=Checked
Native 24p/25p=Checked
Video Bitrate FHD/SH=50000000
Video Bitrate H=[COLOR=White]40000000[/COLOR]
Video Bitrate L=32000000
Preset bitrate=500
Preset bitrate 2=500
[COLOR=White]Remove encoder limits=Checked
Overall Bitrate 2=6000000[/COLOR]
Click to expand...

Is that correct that the Overall Bitrate is lower than the original setting.

Original
9000000
New
6000000

Also I thought overall bit rate was always higher than Video bitrate FHD/SH-
Video Bitrate FHD/SH=50000000
------Overall Bitrate 2=6000000

Pappas
 
That we really need is systemetic tests for Overall bitrate and Overall bitrate 2.

Fixing all other variables and just changing one of them (or two maintaining 2/1 ratio).
 
PappasArts said:
Is that correct that the Overall Bitrate is lower than the original setting.

Original
9000000
New
6000000

Also I thought overall bit rate was always higher than Video bitrate FHD/SH-
Video Bitrate FHD/SH=50000000
------Overall Bitrate 2=6000000
Click to expand...
Good catch, Pappas. Copy/paste error from Black_Ste's post . I meant 60000000 (60M)

Vitaliy Kiselev said:
What we really need is systematic tests for Overall bitrate and Overall bitrate 2.

Fixing all other variables and just changing one of them (or two maintaining 2/1 ratio).
Click to expand...
Thanks. I think I will be able to do some tests tonight.
 
PappasArts said:
Is that correct that the Overall Bitrate is lower than the original setting.

Original
9000000
New
6000000

Pappas
Click to expand...


Sorry guys. I have made a blunder on OB2. It was at 6000000. Stupid me :cry:

Will do some controlled tests today/tomorrow and post results.

Thanks Pappas for pointing it out.
 
Vitaliy Kiselev said:
Fixing all other variables and just changing one of them (or two maintaining 2/1 ratio).
Click to expand...

Last week I have used the following settings with my Transcend 16GB Class 10 card:

[Settings]
Prevent version compare=Checked
Third-party battery=Checked
30min limit removal=Checked
Video Bitrate FHD/SH=40000000
Overall Bitrate=40000000
Limiting Bitrate=40000000
Preset bitrate=400
Preset bitrate 2=400

It was stable (except for some of my nasty "death" charts on a tripod). Then I just added:

Remove encoder limits=Checked
Overall Bitrate 2=40000000

The camera stopped shooting immediately even on low-detailed scenes (card speed error).
 
svecher said:
Good catch, Pappas. Copy/paste error from Black_Ste's post . I meant 60000000 (60M)


Thanks. I think I will be able to do some tests tonight.
Click to expand...



Black_Ste said:
Sorry guys. I have made a blunder on OB2. It was at 6000000. Stupid me :cry:

Will do some controlled tests today/tomorrow and post results.

Thanks Pappas for pointing it out.
Click to expand...

Looking forward to seeing how your testing goes with these new patches/settings-


Pappas
 
Having a modest class 6 card with 11mb/s rec speed I have been playing around B settings in classic Ptool.

These worked rock solid for me in the past.

Video Bitrate FHD/SH=34000000
Overall Bitrate=36000000
Limiting Bitrate=40000000
Preset bitrate=340
Preset bitrate 2=340

With the new one lacking the Limiting bitrate I tried various overall bitrate 2 from 50 down to 36 - no go for me. I played with overall 2 settings having the overall 1 both checked and unchecked - I always had either a card error or a freeze after a second.

Rolled back to the old school.
 
zigizigi said:
Having a modest class 6 card with 11mb/s rec speed I have been playing around B settings in classic Ptool. .... I always had either a card error or a freeze after a second.
Click to expand...

Similar as in my case. How do you know the speed of your card? Have you measured the speed as given in the following thread:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=217260

If possible, do it. I would like to see which cards are suitable for such settings...
 
zigizigi said:
Having a modest class 6 card with 11mb/s rec speed
Click to expand...

That is either a very fast class 6 card or a very slow one depending on what you mean by mb/s.- MB/s

Class 6 is usually around 7Mega Bytes ps or 56 mega bits ps.
 
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rambooc1 said:
Class 6 is usually around 7mega bits ps or 56 mega bytes ps.
Click to expand...

Do you mean just the opposite?
However, declared and measured speeds are two separate worlds. That's why I would like to see the measured speeds with 64kB or 32kB blocks. How large blocks are used by GH1?
 
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crunchy said:
Do you mean just the opposite?
However, declared and measured speeds are two separate worlds. That's why I would like to see the measured speeds with 64kB or 32kB blocks. How large blocks are used by GH1?
Click to expand...

Yep stuffed up, corrected...haha
 
crunchy said:
Similar as in my case. How do you know the speed of your card? Have you measured the speed as given in the following thread:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=217260

If possible, do it. I would like to see which cards are suitable for such settings...
Click to expand...

The figure of 11 megabytes per sec I got off CrystaDiskMark. As for the test suggested:

Card Reader: Samsung laptop
Card Brand: Qumo
Card Type (SD or SDHC or SDXC): SDHC
Card Class: 6
Card Size (in GB): 16
Date Purchased: summer 2010
Card Burst Write Speed (in Mbps): 48.9 Mbps - 64kb block size; 40.4 Mbps - 32kb block size
 
rambooc1 said:
Class 6 is usually around 7Mega Bytes ps or 56 mega bits ps.
Click to expand...
Tom's Hardware did write speed throughput tests on a wide range of Class 4 and Class 6 SD cards last year. Here's a link to a chart of their results:

http://media.bestofmicro.com/F/F/178107/original/sdhc-transfer-write.png

My takeaway is that Class 6 SD cards deliver a minimum write speed of 8.4 MBytes/sec, which is about 67Mbps. In practice, I've never seen a write error at rates below 65Mbps on Class 6 Transend cards.
 
lpowell said:
http://media.bestofmicro.com/F/F/178107/original/sdhc-transfer-write.png

My takeaway is that Class 6 SD cards deliver a minimum write speed of 8.4 MBytes/sec, which is about 67Mbps. In practice, I've never seen a write error at rates below 65Mbps on Class 6 Transend cards.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link. However, what we need is a measurement of writing speed of data chunks made by GH1. I still don't know what kind of test should we make in order to imitate GH1's inner writing mechanism. However, it's still better for all of us to have the same standard for measuring speed of our cards when we compare different settings and discuss problems.

How did you measure 65Mbps? Is it average speed?
 
crunchy said:
How did you measure 65Mbps? Is it average speed?
Click to expand...
65Mbps bitrate as reported by QuickTime for MJPEG 4:2:0 720p videos. I also examined the bar chart of individual frame sizes reported by Premiere Pro CS4 and noted very little variation in frame size over time. I set 65Mbps as the maximum bitrate; average was around 60Mbps depending on lighting and scenery details.
 
I've 4 different branded class 6 cards EagleTec,Transend, Adata and Sandisc and all fail in mjpeg mode on anything over 60+ MBps

Going class 10 soon anyway so not an issue.
 
zigizigi said:
Having a modest class 6 card with 11mb/s rec speed I have been playing around B settings in classic Ptool.

These worked rock solid for me in the past.

Video Bitrate FHD/SH=34000000
Overall Bitrate=36000000
Limiting Bitrate=40000000
Preset bitrate=340
Preset bitrate 2=340

With the new one lacking the Limiting bitrate I tried various overall bitrate 2 from 50 down to 36 - no go for me. I played with overall 2 settings having the overall 1 both checked and unchecked - I always had either a card error or a freeze after a second.

Rolled back to the old school.
Click to expand...

So the latest ptool with settings that were solid- now don't work for you? I have Ptool 3.6 open as well the latest ptool- I will load my simple settings 64-72-80 24psf that worked for me when I need them in 3.6 ptool- and experiment with the newer ptool. The only problem I have with the new Ptool, is there are all these adjustment, however no logic is attached to them on what they really do with one another.
 
PappasArts said:
. The only problem I have with the new Ptool, is there are all these adjustment, however no logic is attached to them on what they really do with one another.
Click to expand...

I'm with you on that Pappas, but Vitaliy has said even he doesn't know how the adjustments are going to interact. I guess that's the reason we're risking our beloved precious bundle of joy for the good of mankind. :thumbup:

Rambo
 
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