Narrative AND documentary use?

M

mcstrangelove

Member
I'm sold on this camera for its narrative film applications, but I'm wondering how people feel about it in run-and-gun situations: ergonomics, durability, weight, hand-held image quality. My key concern is that I've been told that there aren't any m4/3 lenses that are faster than f4. So, I'd be in trouble in low-light situations without primes or a non-native zoom (without the option of autofocus, if necessary).

A bit about my needs: usage would initially be about 20% narrative and 80% doc/handheld, but hope to eventually increase my narrative work. I'm not a shooter by trade, but want to learn and become more confident behind the lens. I don't have the $$$ to buy 2 dedicated cameras, but I also don't want to settle for a 1/3 camcorder and then kick myself when I can't obtain shallow focus. Likewise, I don't want to go with the AF100 if I can't shoot in low light (with a m4/3 native lens) or have the option of automatic controls for 1-handed shooting if necessary.

I love what I've seen with this camera, but am I fooling myself that I can get the best of both worlds (narrative & doc) with it? Should I save my money and go with something like an HMC150 and miss out on the fun filmic compositions and lens expandability?

Any advice is much appreciated!
 
The AF100 has been working well for my documentary use in slower 'walk-and-gun' situations. The focus needs to be very precise due to the large sensor's shallow DOF. The FA (focus assist) function is mandatory in my opinion. I love it. But I don't think this is the ideal camera for high speed run-and-gun emergency spot news situations. I think news photographers might be more at risk for getting burned with a focus issue, as opposed to a 2/3" ENG camera that is more forgiving since the DOF tends to be much deeper.
 
Thanks for the response. I should clarify that my doc needs are more like yours...more like walking and shooting with one hand. Do you use a lens that allows autofocus? Besides low light situations, I'm concerned about focus and not always having a free hand to turn the ring. I'll have to look at the focus assist feature. Is that the same as "focus on red"?
 
I shoot in both type's of environments as well and usually pick between my AF and EX1 depending on my needs. One thing not to forget with the AF is, just because it naturally has a shallower depth of field, it doesn't mean you cant shoot at f8, 11 or 16 (light dependent) when you have to have a deeper in focus range. The ND wheel goes both ways if you know what I mean.
 
Yeah I'd get some fast wide lenses and some fast zooms and you'll be ready to handle most DOC situations. Add in some normal/tele lenses. Then you'll be able to shoot sharp, deep focus run and gun stuff as well as shallow focus very flattering/attractive portraits.

Noah
 
Actually after perusing the NAB for 3 full days I would say that the AF100 use by skilled hands is an excellent verite style doc camera.
With larger sensors than the 4/3 you'll have a very hard time focusing in low light and situations, but the 4/3 is large enough to give you shallow DOF whenever you want and can afford.
Keep in mind that this equation is fully dependable on your lens package, but overall this is a very good mix.
 
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Thanks for all the input. I wish I could afford an array of lenses but at this point I can only go for one. So most likely it would be a zoom. Is it true there are no micro 4/3 zooms faster than f4?
 
I think this is a 2-part question, as lens selection is a critical aspect of documentary shooting. I am using my AF almost entirely for verite work. For me, the Nikon 17-55 f2.8 is the perfect complement to the AF100. In the back of my mind, I am always thinking about the folks who went before us, shooting documentaries on 16mm film. I don't see that the AF100 should in any way be an impediment to making the kind of images I want to make under the widely varying conditions in which I work. Just do it!
 
I appreciate the lens suggestions. Sorry, I might not have been clear...I was wondering if there were any micro 4/3 zooms that can utilize the camera's autofocus feature. I checked on the Olympus lenses with Abel Cine and it seems that it cannot auto focus. Not sure about the Nikon yet, but trying to get an answer.
 
The Olympus 14-35 f2 lens can use the 'push' auto focus feature on the camera. This is not a "always on" auto focus. I've tested it a few times and it works pretty good, I usually forget it's even there because Im so used to manually focusing. No Nikon lenses will auto focus on the AF.
 
Well .. if the Lumix lenses are any indication, auto-focus yields slow and inconsistent results. For a still, it's probably
fine .. because you don't care about the focus time and correct when it guesses wrong.

For video, I'd much rather have a cine-style lens with minimal breath and a good (manual) pull.

I also think the AF100 needs a rig to be considered an adequate run-n-gun camera. It's just damn
difficult to perch on your collar bone and fatiguing on the wrist the odd position you have to put your
hand into the grip. Moreover, depending on the glass, the AF100 may become front-heavy and unwieldy.

Our 300's .. i can run around with them all day long .. but that's what the body is made for. The AF100,
not so much.

jeff
 
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If Restrepo could be made in Afghanistan with a paraplegic 5D2 (I believe this is correct), then any doc can be made with an AF100.

I've been shooting walk-and gun, hand held footage with the Panny 20mmF1.7 with good results. The lens is so small and light it's like shooting with a super-8 camera. I keep a 50mmf1.4 in my vest which I can change out in a snap. The zooms have their place, but the added weight can make hand holding unworkable.
 
All my work is unrepeatble run & gun shooting and I gave up shooting with Nikon D90 DSLR 2 years ago because I hated the ergonomics and realiability issues. Now, I've had my AF102 for a couple of weeks but I'm still choosing the EX1 for these gigs, however, I'm breaking the mold tomorrow and using the AF as primary cam with 2 x Nikon f/2.8 zooms (14-24 & 24-70) and I assure you I'm now having flashbacks to when I used to shoot on a JVC 200 ProHD with it's manual focus and no OIS. Coincidentally, I did buy the Lumix 14-45mm f/3.5-5.6 before I got the AF102 but, sad to say it's auto focus performance is quite poor, what's worse is that when you switch auto-focus on, it disables the focus ring so you have no way of quickly correcting focus :(

I'll let you know how I go with run & gun on this camera after my gig tomorrow.
 
No one has seemed to mention the 14-140, since it is currently the only video optimized m4/3 lens in existence with silent af. If you want fast autofocus then you need to shoot 720p60. That feeds the autofocus a lot more information and reduces focus time. Plus it has ois. It's fine for outdoors daylight.
 
I've done some crazy run & gun with the AF and I have to say its possible but sub optimal. I was using my Olympus lenses (14-35 &35-100 ) mostly the 14-35. On the plus side is the small form factor and maneuverability and on the minus is the lack of focal length available. I managed to make it work but there are just some situations where you want more lens and its not there.

I could have shot with my 370 & fuji wide angle and that would have been a no brainer. We *really need* a 12-60 mm stabilized zoom lens that is a 2.8 or better, and then run and gun with the AF will be far easier.
 
We *really need* a 12-60 mm stabilized zoom lens that is a 2.8 or better
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This is the most discouraging thing about the AF100. I've been shooting a documentary for 2 weeks and really miss a decent zoom. Not necessarily "run and gun", a term that is misleading, but just the ability to quickly change focal lengths so there is variety for editing later. It is almost unbelievable to me that there isn't a viable solution.

For me, the Nikon 17-55 f2.8
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Tell me about this lens... Aperture change? Parfocal? I've avoided Nikkors because of the focusing direction, changing lenses to Zuiko, Leica and Canon, but I've got to have a good zoom lens!
 
jdesignhi said:
I am using my AF almost entirely for verite work. For me, the Nikon 17-55 f2.8 is the perfect complement to the AF100. In the back of my mind, I am always thinking about the folks who went before us, shooting documentaries on 16mm film. I don't see that the AF100 should in any way be an impediment to making the kind of images I want to make under the widely varying conditions in which I work. Just do it!
Click to expand...

I am also using the AF100 for verite style, and I love it, using the 14-140 lumix and a Nikon 50mm 1.4. The f4 is certainly slow, but I've accepted some gain for situations where I need it, and it doesn't bother me nearly as much as I thought it would. Obviously it adds noise, but not as much as I thought it would. I don't really use autofocus, so that hasn't been an issue.

Does that Nikon have aperture control on the lens?
 
jdesignhi said:
I think this is a 2-part question, as lens selection is a critical aspect of documentary shooting. I am using my AF almost entirely for verite work. For me, the Nikon 17-55 f2.8 is the perfect complement to the AF100. In the back of my mind, I am always thinking about the folks who went before us, shooting documentaries on 16mm film. I don't see that the AF100 should in any way be an impediment to making the kind of images I want to make under the widely varying conditions in which I work. Just do it!
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I'm confused.. What Nikon 17-55mm f2.8 are you using? If it's the AF-s 17-55mm f/2.8G DX IF-ED, how do you control the aperture? Thanks...
 
I just picked up a Tamron 17-50mm/2.8 XR DiII on eBay. It's a Pentax mount, and I'm using a Fotodiox adapter ($30) that HAS AN APERTURE CONTROL RING! I've mentioned this Pentax feature before on this board but so far it seems to have gone largely unnoticed. The Tamron is definitely lower build quality than the Nikon, but I popped the image up on my screen this morning and it looks great, only slightly soft wide open, but it gives you two extra stops over the 14-140 at 50mm. So if you are on a budget, this may be a solution, other than the 14-140 of course.
 
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