NAB - What's your camera wishlist?
- Thread starter Fahnon
- Start date
fannyslacks
Member
ha. what? kholi. why not give us a taste? just a tiny taste?
stevedocmaker
Well-known member
We all want our new camera to be as cheap as possible. And assuming we're all talking about some large sensor job (NOT that silly, pie-in-the-sky Bolex thing), the things I'd like to see addressed in the next batch of camera releases have not been addressed much in this thread, a bit to my surprise. They are:
1. Ergonomics. All the current large sensor cameras suffer from horrible ergonomics (I have not got my hands on a C300 yet mind you, but I'm not encouraged by the reviews). Any box can be mounted on a tripod or a huge shoulder rig, I want a camera I can hold in my hands, get a stable image, not draw crowds from miles around, and enjoy shooting with. It should have just a few buttons and dials that are accessible without taking your eye off the viewfinder, and each button and dial should be fully programmable. The camera should have internal NDs, and variable ISO that changes smoothly a la the FS100 (not in steps). It should have a large, comfortable, hi-res, color accurate, EVF that you can actually nail focus with at f2.8 or lower, instead of having to add an after market monitor or EVF. It should have auto focus and auto ISO capabilities for those times when you just don't have time to futz with everything (I find those features on the FS100 to be perfectly adequate).
2. HIGHER DR, LOWER NOISE. I want as much DR as possible for as low a cost as possible. If that means 10-bit, then so be it, though it sounds like the C300 gets you there with C-Log and 8-bit output. But Just give me a camera that can record some detail in highlights and not black out and noise up in the shadows please.
3. A good, large aperture, every-day zoom lens with good, old-fashioned geared zoom and focus rings - not servo controlled - that's parafocal, with good, quiet IS and that doesn't cost a fortune. I'm ready for the next generation now, designed for film and not stills (I'm tired of using still lenses on film cameras). I realize that geared rings may be impossible with lens-based IS, so maybe it's time to develop in-camera IS (Pentax has this on their DSLRs).
We can all talk about bits, bytes and tech specs for days, but I believe that if one of the manufacturers can deliver on these goods, especially ergonomics, they will bury the competition. I think this is why that silly Bolex thing has gotten so much attention, it reminds people of those neat, small handheld reflex cameras we used to love shooting with.
Just my $.02.
1. Ergonomics. All the current large sensor cameras suffer from horrible ergonomics (I have not got my hands on a C300 yet mind you, but I'm not encouraged by the reviews). Any box can be mounted on a tripod or a huge shoulder rig, I want a camera I can hold in my hands, get a stable image, not draw crowds from miles around, and enjoy shooting with. It should have just a few buttons and dials that are accessible without taking your eye off the viewfinder, and each button and dial should be fully programmable. The camera should have internal NDs, and variable ISO that changes smoothly a la the FS100 (not in steps). It should have a large, comfortable, hi-res, color accurate, EVF that you can actually nail focus with at f2.8 or lower, instead of having to add an after market monitor or EVF. It should have auto focus and auto ISO capabilities for those times when you just don't have time to futz with everything (I find those features on the FS100 to be perfectly adequate).
2. HIGHER DR, LOWER NOISE. I want as much DR as possible for as low a cost as possible. If that means 10-bit, then so be it, though it sounds like the C300 gets you there with C-Log and 8-bit output. But Just give me a camera that can record some detail in highlights and not black out and noise up in the shadows please.
3. A good, large aperture, every-day zoom lens with good, old-fashioned geared zoom and focus rings - not servo controlled - that's parafocal, with good, quiet IS and that doesn't cost a fortune. I'm ready for the next generation now, designed for film and not stills (I'm tired of using still lenses on film cameras). I realize that geared rings may be impossible with lens-based IS, so maybe it's time to develop in-camera IS (Pentax has this on their DSLRs).
We can all talk about bits, bytes and tech specs for days, but I believe that if one of the manufacturers can deliver on these goods, especially ergonomics, they will bury the competition. I think this is why that silly Bolex thing has gotten so much attention, it reminds people of those neat, small handheld reflex cameras we used to love shooting with.
Just my $.02.
fannyslacks
Member
this is a real good point. i'm starting from scratch with lenses and would be so happy if a camera manufacturer took a good companion zoom lens into account.
KyleProhaska
Veteran
I expect something between the 10k-15k range from one of the major manufacturers that is going to shake things up big time. We shall see...
Grug
Veteran
An FS100 with SLOG to eek out an extra couple of stops of DR from that lovely F3 sensor would do me. If they'd throw in 10-bit output through the HDMI port (HDMI is fully capable of 10-bit) then that'd make it all the sweeter.
I just want a large sensor (I'd love Vistavision-sized, but the d800/d4 look to have some serious limitations still), ProRes 4:2:2 recording for a super-fast shoot/edit pipeline (through an external recorder if I must - though I'd much prefer it to be internal), and at least 13 stops of DR (with buttery smooth highlight rolloff)... is that so much to ask?
I just want a large sensor (I'd love Vistavision-sized, but the d800/d4 look to have some serious limitations still), ProRes 4:2:2 recording for a super-fast shoot/edit pipeline (through an external recorder if I must - though I'd much prefer it to be internal), and at least 13 stops of DR (with buttery smooth highlight rolloff)... is that so much to ask?
Illya Friedman
Well-known member
snowleopard
Well-known member
Wow, we're only two weeks away.
Still hoping for a Panasonic AC160 (or HVX250), but with a micro 4/3 chip in it. I'll sacrifice a shorter zoom in order to get the bigger chip/aperture, and keep the cost reasonable.
Still hoping for a Panasonic AC160 (or HVX250), but with a micro 4/3 chip in it. I'll sacrifice a shorter zoom in order to get the bigger chip/aperture, and keep the cost reasonable.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
I know ANOTHER thing you'll find interesting at NAB! And we'll have one in the AbelCine booth. :-D
RedBlack999
Active member
Panavision Genesis-Lite, with PL or EF mount, under $10K !
Would love to see Panavison and Arri entering the sub $10K digital market.
Would love to see Panavison and Arri entering the sub $10K digital market.
This is a darn good idea. You get a large sensor, which means better low light, better DoF control, with AVC-intra 100. I can live with a fixed zoom. I like this!
That's not Panavision's approach. Traditionally, they have provided the most best, most expensive technology, but only for rental. But that was for film, where there weren't many other players (Arri, Moviecam, and, in the old days, Mitchell). Now, there are many options available, all the way down to HDSLRs and HDV and AVCHD camcorders. So maybe they will consider branding low-cost, for-sale cameras.
As a side note, a film like Gareth Edwards' Monsters probably would have been impossible to make for $500K with Panavision gear. And his DOF-adapter-modded Sony Frankenrig wass far larger -- and less light-sensitive -- than, say, a Mk2, T2i/3i, or GH2 would have been.
How is this different from an AVC-Intra AF100, other than a fixed zoom lens? I would think a large-sensor camera with a removable lens would be cheaper to manufacture.
Peter J. DeCrescenzo
Veteran
I previously posted this in the "wrong" NAB thread, so am re-posting here:
Look around in the far dark corners of the NAB show floor, maybe even in an alley, or a hotel room .... ;-)
My dream is that someone has figured out that AJA, SoundDevices, Atomos, etc. have done a lot of work for them, and "all" they have to do is come out with is the front end of a video camera, not the back end -- not a complete camcorder.
Make it available with a "common" mount or two (maybe old-style Nikon, or PL, or offer both), an APS-C or larger (preferably FF) sensor, built-in NDs optional but would be nice, and 1080p 10-bit 4:2:2 (@ 24p, 25p, 30p & 720p60/50 ... of course 1080p60/50 would be nice)
... no internal recording! Just high-quality 1080p HDMI live out please!
... put all this in a small-ish metal box with lots of 1/4" & 3/8" threaded holes in it, and give it clean normal not-screwed-up HDMI or HD-SDI live out!
End users would configure this cam head together with an external video recorder, EVF or monitor, lenses, filters, matte box, battery power, etc. Audio sources would be connected to the external recorder.
I mean, how difficult can this be for a "real company" (not a VW bus full of hippies, or egomaniacs)?
Oh, and they can say they also have a 4K version coming late next year, but for 2012 & 2013, good ol' clean 10-bit 4:2:2 1080p is fine.
Thank you very much. ;-)
Look around in the far dark corners of the NAB show floor, maybe even in an alley, or a hotel room .... ;-)
My dream is that someone has figured out that AJA, SoundDevices, Atomos, etc. have done a lot of work for them, and "all" they have to do is come out with is the front end of a video camera, not the back end -- not a complete camcorder.
Make it available with a "common" mount or two (maybe old-style Nikon, or PL, or offer both), an APS-C or larger (preferably FF) sensor, built-in NDs optional but would be nice, and 1080p 10-bit 4:2:2 (@ 24p, 25p, 30p & 720p60/50 ... of course 1080p60/50 would be nice)
... no internal recording! Just high-quality 1080p HDMI live out please!
... put all this in a small-ish metal box with lots of 1/4" & 3/8" threaded holes in it, and give it clean normal not-screwed-up HDMI or HD-SDI live out!
End users would configure this cam head together with an external video recorder, EVF or monitor, lenses, filters, matte box, battery power, etc. Audio sources would be connected to the external recorder.
I mean, how difficult can this be for a "real company" (not a VW bus full of hippies, or egomaniacs)?
Oh, and they can say they also have a 4K version coming late next year, but for 2012 & 2013, good ol' clean 10-bit 4:2:2 1080p is fine.
Thank you very much. ;-)
Jaime Valles
Veteran
+111111111111111111111111111111111
The fixed zoom is the big difference. Motorized zoom, like the HPX250 has now. Heck, even a 2/3" single CMOS/CCD in an HPX250 body would be cool. It'd still have good control over DoF and good low light performance, tied to a broadcast codec. Kind of like the original Scarlet design. I would imagine TV news organizations and documentary shooters might like such a camera.
Actually, the new JVC HMQ10 comes pretty close to this idea.
Would it be more expensive with an integrated lens? Yes, I guess. Might be worth it, though.
Do I think Panny will build one? Almost certainly not. But this is a camera wishlist thread.
snowleopard
Well-known member
I wouldn't put it past Panny to build something like this, just not likely yet. 2013 seems more likely.
The reason for the fixed lens is numerous. Convenience and efficiency are the main factors, coupled with a smaller camera size than the AF100. Like Vanvideo I'm thinking docs, run and gun, true indies, ENG work. The AF100 is almost a film camera as I see it. Simply putting and leaving a zoom lens on it isn't going to make it what I'm looking for. I don't need a digital cinema camera like the AF100. I want a do everything cam like my HPX170. I just want one with a bigger chip 2/3 to 4/3 sized, so I get better low light, and better DOF control when I need it.
The reason for the fixed lens is numerous. Convenience and efficiency are the main factors, coupled with a smaller camera size than the AF100. Like Vanvideo I'm thinking docs, run and gun, true indies, ENG work. The AF100 is almost a film camera as I see it. Simply putting and leaving a zoom lens on it isn't going to make it what I'm looking for. I don't need a digital cinema camera like the AF100. I want a do everything cam like my HPX170. I just want one with a bigger chip 2/3 to 4/3 sized, so I get better low light, and better DOF control when I need it.
The problem is, with a 2/3-inch or m4/3 sensor, a zoom lens will be pretty big, and, especially with the latter, pretty slow.
That's why I'm thinking more with a 2/3" chip. I think they could build a reasonably fast lens. The EX1R, with 1/2" chips, manages an f1.9 lens. Granted, its zoom ratio isn't as good as what a 1/3" can do, but there are compromises everywhere. The JVC has a relatively slow lens at f2.8. I don't know what the 2/3" Scarlet's lens was capable of, but I thought it was pretty fast.
Plus, if you use gain, the image won't be as noisy as a smaller chip cam. I would guess a 3-chip cam allows more light in? Not sure, but the 2/3" Scarlet seemed pretty close to success. But i do believe they were having issues with the lens.