NAB 2011 and the AF100

I will probably get it, but it has to become available first. And the news gets better, I've been making suggestions to their team and they seem to be quite receptive (echoing what NoahK said earlier) so ... they might indeed be setting out to make a once-and-for-all device, which would be awesome. As with any unreleased product I have reservations, I want to see the final before plunking down the dough, but on specs and promises this one looks really very appealing.

For lens manufacturers -- for broadcast, NAB is really it. For consumer, there are several shows -- PhotoKina, PMA, PMA Australia, CEATEC, and CES. The broadcast manufacturers showed their lineups and discussed their new stuff -- you could see the $100k Fujinons, the Alura, the new Canon PL lenses, Angenieux's lineup, Zeiss's lineup, Schneider's Cine Xenars -- they were all there. And I took advantage of that and made myself an unholy terror of suggestions for things that our market would really want. Or, at least, I believe that I've got a good-enough handle on what people keep asking for, that I was able to accurately relay that to them. But new products will take time. As for the consumer lens manufacturers (Lumix, Olympus, etc) -- well, NAB isn't their show. They'd probably be more likely to be found at PMA or CES or PhotoKina.

As for the AF100s at the show, they were in all shapes and sizes. I saw a number of kitted-out shoulder rigs, and one guy on a monopod, and several handheld.
 
Last edited:
editman said:
Just imagine the Samurai with 1:1, false colours, zebras, aspect/zoom and eyepiece.
Click to expand...

Have already mentioned similar to Dave, well more importantly to me anyway I asked for blue only mode. We shall see if anything is incorporated. The beauty is the constant firmware updates, so virtually anything could be added - the issue only then comes down to the quality of the screen used. But probably like many Im trying to find something to do both jobs. Really looking forward to getting my hands on one to test when they are available. Though with local suppliers - I highly doubt a test will be remotely possible.
 
Dave was very receptive to the idea of one-to-one pixels, colour bars etc when I asked the question in a samurai thread a few weeks back.

custom naming of files, all saved to pro-res too, and that's a very usefull extra pair of hands in such a small device.
 
electricpig said:
Dave was very receptive to the idea of one-to-one pixels, colour bars etc when I asked the question in a samurai thread a few weeks back.

custom naming of files, all saved to pro-res too, and that's a very usefull extra pair of hands in such a small device.
Click to expand...
Right and all saved to Cineform too.............................
 
Barry_Green said:
I did hassle Zeiss about the ZA series of zooms, because I think a native version of those would be very popular -- Zeiss glass, a 16-35 and 24-70 zoom, constant f/2.8... what's not to love? You can use them now with a Novoflex adapter, but a native version with OIS and controllable iris would be pretty much ideal. The folks I talked to seemed to be a bit surprised at the request -- they were more from the Compact Primes division, thinking cine glass, and asked me "Have you seen the LWZ?" Yes, of course I have, and it's $45,000
Click to expand...

The LWZ.2 is actually "only" $29,000 (I know, "but still...").

Just wanted to clarify, for the sake of accuracy...
 
Barry, NoahK, have been following your excitement for the Sound Devices Pix series and also feel like jumping on board, however, after searching around, there's something I still can't make out from the recorder. You guys have seen it hands on, I presume, so here are my two questions: what flavour of prores does it record? Prores LT, Prores regular 4:2:2, Prores HQ 4:2:2 or Prores 4:4:4? What is the weight of this thing?


Thanks, looking forward to using one of these!

EDIT- Just saw the codec flavors in the Sound Devices website. It records every kind of Prores bar 4:4:4. Should have looked better!
 
Last edited:
electricpig said:
Dave was very receptive to the idea of one-to-one pixels, colour bars etc when I asked the question in a samurai thread a few weeks back.

custom naming of files, all saved to pro-res too, and that's a very usefull extra pair of hands in such a small device.
Click to expand...

We're very receptive to ideas for the Samurai. It's going to be around for a while and that gives us plenty of time to add features (to all our devices, in fact). We can't do it all from day one, though!

There are some very good products out there, but don't forget: look at the whole package, look at storage costs, and don't just base your decision on who's been around the longest: we've been in the business for a very long time, in professional audio (that's my background before I got into video in 1996) and digital video. Oh, and we're cheaper too.

Dave Shapton
Atomos
 
Dave, any chance to get also HDMI on the samurai? The versatility of the Pix is having separate inputs for HDMI, HDSDI and even XLR on the same device. It is obviously 1000 dollars more expensive than the Samurai, but its much more versatile in inputs. If the Samurai had both HDSDI and HDMI, that would make it much more appealing and versatile...
 
SPZ said:
Dave, any chance to get also HDMI on the samurai? The versatility of the Pix is having separate inputs for HDMI, HDSDI and even XLR on the same device. It is obviously 1000 dollars more expensive than the Samurai, but its much more versatile in inputs. If the Samurai had both HDSDI and HDMI, that would make it much more appealing and versatile...
Click to expand...

And how much is a Ninja? It's about $1000. So you can buy a Ninja and a Samurai and have the versatility of two separate units. Doesn't that make more sense? As far as audio is concerned: bring it in through the camera. If you're coming off a radio mic, you can just use the buit-in 2.5" jack.

By the way, in addition to our video expertise, we all have Pro Audio backgrounds at Atomos.

Dave Shapton
Atomos
 
Dave-
Can you record two tracks of audio via the HD-SDI input and an additional two tracks via the built-in 2.5" jack for a total of four tracks?
 
One thing that concerned me about the Sound Devices models was the size. They look SUPER thick! The Atmos products look like they would be WAY lighter. Did anyone check the size and weight. I know for some this doesn't matter, but this has been one of my selling points on the Ninja is the size/weight looks nice.
 
Rick Burnett said:
One thing that concerned me about the Sound Devices models was the size. They look SUPER thick! The Atmos products look like they would be WAY lighter. Did anyone check the size and weight. I know for some this doesn't matter, but this has been one of my selling points on the Ninja is the size/weight looks nice.
Click to expand...

Based on what I saw at NAB, the Sound Devices model is certainly a little bit wider and taller, and a bit thicker. But I wouldn't say the SD models are significantly larger, or at least they didn't seem that way to me. And keep in mind that there are full-size XLR connectors on the SD models, which is going to add a bit of bulk to the unit.

And the Ninja actually feels heavier in the hand than you might think. Not overly so, but it's a solidly-built piece of kit.
 
Stephen Mick said:
Based on what I saw at NAB, the Sound Devices model is certainly a little bit wider and taller, and a bit thicker. But I wouldn't say the SD models are significantly larger, or at least they didn't seem that way to me. And keep in mind that there are full-size XLR connectors on the SD models, which is going to add a bit of bulk to the unit.

And the Ninja actually feels heavier in the hand than you might think. Not overly so, but it's a solidly-built piece of kit.
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing that. I've only been able to see pictures of both. I imagine both companies have weight specs, which I guess I could have just checked! :) I think there will definitely be a Ninja in my future :)
 
David Shapton said:
And how much is a Ninja? It's about $1000. So you can buy a Ninja and a Samurai and have the versatility of two separate units. Doesn't that make more sense? As far as audio is concerned: bring it in through the camera. If you're coming off a radio mic, you can just use the buit-in 2.5" jack.

By the way, in addition to our video expertise, we all have Pro Audio backgrounds at Atomos.

Dave Shapton
Atomos
Click to expand...
Dave... come on. Your recent posts have moved from information to marketing, which is something that we don't allow. If you want to provide customer service to the membership, that's what we appreciate. But if you want to sell to the membership -- that's crossing the line.

We've been patient because there's so much interest in these new products, but ... come on... it sounds like you're saying in the same breath "instead of getting a Sound Devices recorder with XLR inputs and audio processing that's on par with the 7-series recorders, you should route audio through your camera and bring it in on a 2.5mm minijack" and then, in the same breath, saying that you have a Pro Audio background.

You know and I know and everyone reading this thread knows that on-board camera audio through a 2.5mm minijack is not going to compare to an SD702. Or even a MixPre. There are reasons the SD PIX 240 is $1000 more than your Samurai, and the PIX 220 is $600 more than your Ninja. Let's not get caught up in the whole trap of "it's just as good for a lot less" because we all know that never turns out that way.

Anyway -- answering questions about your products is appropriate manufacturer behavior. Providing support is appropriate manufacturer behavior. Providing press releases and having commercial signatures is something that is reserved for sponsors only. And direct marketing to the membership is not allowed here, even for sponsors. Thanks for understanding.
 
David Shapton said:
And how much is a Ninja? It's about $1000. So you can buy a Ninja and a Samurai and have the versatility of two separate units. Doesn't that make more sense?
Click to expand...

Not at all; I'd have spent the same money, and would have the inconvenience of swapping units, double configuration, double maintenance...
 
Barry_Green said:
Lenses -- nothing to report, other than that I got tired of waiting for an announcement and I went to the three major companies and basically badgered them to produce what I (and I think most everyone else) want: a 12-60 to 17-80 f/2 cine-style zoom that covers the AF100 sensor but doesn't need to be any bigger than that, for $5k. Had some interesting meetings, some folks did seem interested in what I was proposing. We'll see if they make it.
Click to expand...

Barry,

Thanks! That is EXACTLY what I would like to see! It seems like SOMEONE
would make a lens like that soon with the 'big sensor' video camera and DSLR
craze everywhere! It would sell like hotcakes!!
 
Barry_Green said:
Dave... come on. Your recent posts have moved from information to marketing, which is something that we don't allow. If you want to provide customer service to the membership, that's what we appreciate. But if you want to sell to the membership -- that's crossing the line.

We've been patient because there's so much interest in these new products, but ... come on... it sounds like you're saying in the same breath "instead of getting a Sound Devices recorder with XLR inputs and audio processing that's on par with the 7-series recorders, you should route audio through your camera and bring it in on a 2.5mm minijack" and then, in the same breath, saying that you have a Pro Audio background.

You know and I know and everyone reading this thread knows that on-board camera audio through a 2.5mm minijack is not going to compare to an SD702. Or even a MixPre. There are reasons the SD PIX 240 is $1000 more than your Samurai, and the PIX 220 is $600 more than your Ninja. Let's not get caught up in the whole trap of "it's just as good for a lot less" because we all know that never turns out that way.

Anyway -- answering questions about your products is appropriate manufacturer behavior. Providing support is appropriate manufacturer behavior. Providing press releases and having commercial signatures is something that is reserved for sponsors only. And direct marketing to the membership is not allowed here, even for sponsors. Thanks for understanding.
Click to expand...

Barry, I'm very happy to defer to your opinion of what is or isn't acceptable in terms of marketing and I'm glad you mentioned this because it highlights a tricky area.

First of all, my attitude to other manufacturers. This is a difficult game and anyone who can create a viable product in this space deserves respect.

What I was trying to do was explain our reasoning about whether we should include a product with both SDI and HDMI. I'm not blind to the fact that most people would like to have a product with everything on board at the lowest possible cost. I can't disagree with that. But, such features add to the cost, and we figure that most people will have a distinct preference for either HDMI or SDI. So, we chose to create two products: one for cameras typically below $6,000 and one for cameras above that price, with SDI and a few other features appropriate for that level of the market.

My final point - which I don't think I made very well - was that it is arguably better to have two units that can be used in parallel (ie at the same time) than a single unit that has the two interfaces built-in, especially if they come to approximately the same price.

The point about the 2.5mm jack is well taken: it's there if you need it. Most users don't need it because they use the on-camera audio. Yes, XLRs are better (assuming good audio circuitry) but they would have added to the cost.

It's all a matter of choice and what an individual's priorities might be.

Dave Shapton
President
Atomos EMEA
 
Well, about marketing -- it's basically about if someone is discussing another product and a manufacturer's rep comes in and says "buy my product instead because of x... y... z..." -- that's the kind of thing we don't allow here. Our membership needs to be free to discuss whatever products they want, without feeling like someone is going to come in and start selling them on one or the other type of products, y'know?

That's all I'm getting at. So here's an example of perfectly acceptable:
Q: Can I use the Ninja to record analog audio?
Atomos: Yes, our products have 2.5mm audio jacks on them.

And here's an example of not acceptable:
Q: Can I record XLR audio and SDI audio simultaneously on the SD PIX 240?
Atomos: Even though you weren't asking about or discussing our products, Atomos would like to let you know that you could do that kind of thing by using our 2.5" minijack.

One is answering an individual user's question, and one is trying to convert someone to using your own product. There are different rules in place for manufacturers' representatives than there are for end users. An end user is free to say "I don't know about the PIX, but I know I can do that on my Ninja, for what it's worth" -- and that's fine, as long as it's occasional and in the spirit of trying to help the end user. If it started becoming something where someone was constantly interrupting conversations to push his/her chosen/favorite product, we'd clamp down on that too.

Hope this all makes sense. :thumbsup:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top