My thoughts on the AF100 after 1.5 days

[Shipsides]

Ok, does this mean that it's possible to record to the nano flash the VFR video at 24p? I know 1080 60p cant be recorded via hd-sdi due to bandwidth limitation, but is there a way to get this signal sent out directly to the nano for proper slo-mo?

Not in 1080. The only outputs to the of the AF100 in 1080P would be 24,25,30,50i,60i. When the camera is set to VFR 60p the output is 60i / 50i. You could send out 720 60P to the Nano and crank the frame rate on it for proper slow-mo.

 

[vcfilms]

Ok, too bad.

 

[ustein]

>but 1080 60p is not a broadcast standard, and really can only be found in a handful of camera.

Actually on the cheap TM700 and it even records in AVCHD.

 

[Brian@202020]

When VFR (variable frame rate) mode is on, no audio is recorded. That's not a major surprise. BUT AUDIO METERS AND HEADPHONE AUDIO ARE ACTIVE WHEN RECORDING IN VFR, BUT NO AUDIO WILL BE RECORDED, EVEN IF YOUR FRAME RATE IS SET TO 24.
In other words, if you have VFR on, frame rate is set to 24, you start recording, you will hear audio in your headphones, the audio meters will be responding to audio, but when you stop recording and play back the shot, there will be no audio.

I was just reading the user manual I downloaded and I think I found a temporary solution for this until it gets fixed in a future firmware update. Go to "AV IN/OUT SETUP", then "HP MODE", and then select "RECORDING". Now theoretically this should only be the sound recorded and not the live sound that plays back in the headphones. There should also be no audio meters jumping. The drawback it'll be a little delayed and could easily drive someone nuts. I haven't received my AF100 yet to test this so I'm not 100% it works but it should in theory.

 

[tacotim]

I was just reading the user manual I downloaded and I think I found a temporary solution for this until it gets fixed in a future firmware update. Go to "AV IN/OUT SETUP", then "HP MODE", and then select "RECORDING". Now theoretically this should only be the sound recorded and not the live sound that plays back in the headphones. There should also be no audio meters jumping. The drawback it'll be a little delayed and could easily drive someone nuts. I haven't received my AF100 yet to test this so I'm not 100% it works but it should in theory.

Yeah, I thought the same thing, but unfortunately it does not solve the problem. That was the first thing i tried after encountering this issue. Audio is still piped to the headphones and meters still bounce even with HP MODE set to recording.

 

[Barry_Green]

Question: So in 1080/60p, is that considered VFR?

Let me answer it a different way... there is a menu item called "VFR MODE". If that menu item is set to "ON", then there will be no audio recorded. Period. Regardless of your frame rate.

If you want to shoot 1080p at 60fps, you do have to turn that menu item on, so therefore shooting 1080 @ 60fps means no audio is recorded.

 

[Barry_Green]

Does the camera still pass sound via SDI or even the RCA's during VFR recording? It could be useful to have audio via nanoflash, KiPro Mini etc.

Some of us want to turn the VFR into actual 'live video' 1080 60p...

Yes, I'd say it does. Well, I tested it with the HDMI, and that definitely worked, so I'm assuming the RCA's and SDI will as well. The headphones and HDMI do, so ... it's gotta do that in all modes, right? I'd bet it does.

And yes, going that way, you could do fully live 1080/60p, at a substantially higher bitrate than the TM700 too; it's 35mbps h.264 when in 60p mode. Takes a Class 6 card to do it though.

 

[Elton]

Yes, I'd say it does. Well, I tested it with the HDMI, and that definitely worked, so I'm assuming the RCA's and SDI will as well. The headphones and HDMI do, so ... it's gotta do that in all modes, right? I'd bet it does.

And yes, going that way, you could do fully live 1080/60p, at a substantially higher bitrate than the TM700 too; it's 35mbps h.264 when in 60p mode. Takes a
Class 6 card to do it though.

Fantastic! Makes life a whole lot easier to sync the sound in post. Little slate app on the iPhone and done. I'd also expect the 1080 60p to look much cleaner than the TM700 given that it's a cleaner signal and better bit rate. Should be interesting to see.

Btw, is it possible to send out 720/60p via SDI during 1080 60p VFR mode? I would much prefer my backup recording to be 720/60p. Not a critical thing, but would be nice to be able to do.

Can't wait for my camera! Supposed to be here in 10 days or less.

 

[Brian@202020]

Yeah, I thought the same thing, but unfortunately it does not solve the problem. That was the first thing i tried after encountering this issue. Audio is still piped to the headphones and meters still bounce even with HP MODE set to recording.

Yes, I'd say it does. Well, I tested it with the HDMI, and that definitely worked, so I'm assuming the RCA's and SDI will as well. The headphones and HDMI do, so ... it's gotta do that in all modes, right? I'd bet it does.

And yes, going that way, you could do fully live 1080/60p, at a substantially higher bitrate than the TM700 too; it's 35mbps h.264 when in 60p mode. Takes a Class 6 card to do it though.

Hmm I'll be honest I have mixed feelings about this issue. I can see where sometimes recording sound (via HDSDI or HDMI) during VFR could be useful, but I also see how one could make a major mistake thinking they recorded audio when they didn't while recording to the internal SD cards. I'd like to see an option to turn this on or off in a future firmware update.

 

[impressive creations]

Let me answer it a different way... there is a menu item called "VFR MODE". If that menu item is set to "ON", then there will be no audio recorded. Period. Regardless of your frame rate.

If you want to shoot 1080p at 60fps, you do have to turn that menu item on, so therefore shooting 1080 @ 60fps means no audio is recorded.

Thanks Barry.. That's a very clear answer.. I appreciate it. Tricky, tricky, since I am shooting weddings. Gotta keep a close eye on those settings. So, I'm sure it's been posted here, but, whats the quickest way to switch frame rates. Say from 1080/60p to 1080/24p?

Also Barry, can you please explain what all this talk of 1080/60p, or 1080/24p 60i. I understand interlaced and all that, but, 24/60i?

Thanks and Happy New Year!!

 

[Barry_Green]

Btw, is it possible to send out 720/60p via SDI during 1080 60p VFR mode?

It doesn't give you the option to cross-convert; your options are to play it at the native res, or to downconvert to standard-def. So, I think the answer is gonna be "no".

 

[Barry_Green]

So, I'm sure it's been posted here, but, whats the quickest way to switch frame rates. Say from 1080/60p to 1080/24p?

Push the button on the back. You can pre-program the frame rate to 60fps, and then use the SHUTR/F.RATE dial to toggle variable frame rate mode on or off. If you set it "on" you get the 1080/60p slow-mo (but no sound). Push the wheel in again, and it'll turn VFR mode off, which sets you back to 24p and recording audio.

Also Barry, can you please explain what all this talk of 1080/60p, or 1080/24p 60i. I understand interlaced and all that, but, 24/60i?

It records in 1080p mode, or 1080i mode. 1080i mode is only for 1080/60i or 1080/50i. When in 1080p mode, you can tell it how many frames per second to record (anywhere from 12 to 60, in 20 different steps). It will always record them as straight-up 1080p, with no pulldown or interlacing.

However, the display system doesn't support 1080/60p -- that isn't a broadcast standard and no HD-SDI camera supports it, because HD-SDI doesn't have the bandwidth to handle 1080/60p. So the SDI output is always 1080/60i. If using variable frame rates (or 24p), it will be embedded within a 60i display signal. The recording is still progressive, but the display is interlaced. Unless you use 1080/24PsF mode, in which case it does put out progressive frames (in a pseudo-interlaced data stream) that can be displayed properly as progressive on a monitor that supports it.

 

[Elton]

It doesn't give you the option to cross-convert; your options are to play it at the native res, or to downconvert to standard-def. So, I think the answer is gonna be "no".

You did say that you could monitor in 1080i though, correct? Can you at least record a 1080 60 VFR shot as 1080i 'live' video onto a nano? Thanks Barry

 

[Barry_Green]

Yes, the HD-SDI monitoring is active, and it embeds the 1080p signal into a 60i signal with pulldown, and you can plug that into a monitor or into a recorder if you so choose.

 

[Allan Black]

Barry and Jan, the next questions will be, how can these glitches be rectified, will the cam have to be returned to the distributor and can the factory serial or production number of the first glitch free camera be published here for public reference? Thanks.

Cheers.

 

[LightMast]

Let me answer it a different way... there is a menu item called "VFR MODE". If that menu item is set to "ON", then there will be no audio recorded. Period. Regardless of your frame rate.

If you want to shoot 1080p at 60fps, you do have to turn that menu item on, so therefore shooting 1080 @ 60fps means no audio is recorded.

Barry- what is happening if you just dial in 60fps with the rear dial without changing the menu option?

 

[Barry_Green]

Barry and Jan, the next questions will be, how can these glitches be rectified, will the cam have to be returned to the distributor and can the factory serial or production number of the first glitch free camera be published here for public reference? Thanks.

What glitches? And what needs to be rectified? If you're talking about the audio still being live during VFR, that's just the way they designed it. I don't like it, but it's not like it's malfunctioning, it's doing what they told it to do. And if they decide to change it, they might do so by issuing a firmware update. So there isn't any new version or revision going to happen, as far as I know.

 

[Barry_Green]

Barry- what is happening if you just dial in 60fps with the rear dial without changing the menu option?

You can't. The dial changes the menu option. So if you press the button in and it says "VFR OFF", then if you go look in the menu you'll see that VFR is indeed off. You can only change the frame rate when VFR is set to ON. And you can toggle the state of VFR by pressing that button in repeatedly.

So, like I said, you can have it pre-loaded and ready to pop into slow-mo. Shoot your normal footage with VFR off, then press in the dial to turn it into 1080/60p slow-mo with VFR on, then when you're done with your VFR shooting, press the dial in to turn it back to VFR OFF mode.

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

That's great, it's almost like having another "USER" button to get into VFR rather than delve into the menus.

Pretty cool.

 

[impressive creations]

So, like I said, you can have it pre-loaded and ready to pop into slow-mo. Shoot your normal footage with VFR off, then press in the dial to turn it into 1080/60p slow-mo with VFR on, then when you're done with your VFR shooting, press the dial in to turn it back to VFR OFF mode.

I LOVE THAT!! Thanks Barry!! I made a huge mistake filming a wedding last year where I was in 60p on my 7D, but I only had on the frame rate indicator and I didn't realize I was shoot in 640x360. OUCH!! Fortunately, the footage looks pretty good and the couple is only getting a Standard def DVD, but man, that was the last time I shot with only minimal setting on display.

I kinda wondered why my shot look kinda square?

Thanks again Barry! So, will your book be included in the box if I get my cam this Spring, or is it a limited time only thing?
Thanks!