my thoughts on HD

cool bro im glad were on the same page ; )

what if we could make are own thread only talking about filmmaking and sharing ideas,the rules are no talking about gear lol
 
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I think we also shouldn't undervalue the shooting gear. Having a good camera can open new possibilities for more ambitious shots. Features shot with inferior consumer cameras that have recognition in festivals usually do so because they portray realistic, "Dogma"esque shooting situations. WIth an HD camera, or a 24p Prosumer camera like the DVX, you can attempt more fictional, cinematography driven footage.

I believe nowadays an HD Prosumer camera like the HVX+ a 35mm adapter, good lighting, with good actors, a decent script, good cameraman, a DP and also good sound manager and set design (do not undervalue these two!) can produce award winning "non documentary" or "Dogmä-esque" feature lengh projects.

Shooting my short film, however, wich was done with friends and cinema lovers (no pay) taught me that there can be no good film if you do not have a decent, productive team. Filmmaking is, at the end of the day, a team effort.

EDIT- The point with gear is, at least to me, that I do not want the audience to be distracted by the low quality of the picture vs the story i'm telling. And I do want the freedom to shoot tripod , dolly and steadicam shots, as well as I want to use dramatic close ups, and location wide shots. I do not want any of these shots to be compromised by poor colors, bad motion rendition and low, distracting resolution. I do not want to confine myself to a shooting style based on camera limitations. I do have to cope with my HVX's limitations, as I did with my DVX before, but these are far less than when I was shooting on a Sony TRV 900- Either I was shooting Dogma style, or had to waste a fortune on CC and grading to achieve acceptable results.
 
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it's hard for me to separate the two. the tools will in some way, define the form of the piece, which one should consider hand in hand with developing the content. they should (ideally) be intrinsically linked and inseparable from one another when all is said and done. i shot Heart of Now with 35mm adapter because i wanted to narrow the audience's attention. for LoveFest, my cinematographers are shooting with two HV20s because they are small and compact, which will help support a greater level of intimacy on set.

ps - i had a friend who called his production company "little fat girl productions". i love that quote and share the same disdain for the "professionalism" of filmmaking. i gets under my skin when someone insist that there is
 
john818 said:
J.R lets say im a millionaire and i buy the best HD camera there is,but have no clue what cinematography means,does it matter if its a great camera?
but a student that only has a small camcorder with great skills in cinema,and knows how to use the camera properly,who do you think can make a better film?
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Whichever of 'em can tell a better story. I'd rather watch brilliant content recorded by lousy camera work on a VHS camcorder, than watch Storaro shooting 35mm film of utterly lame boring crap.
 
Barry_Green said:
Whichever of 'em can tell a better story. I'd rather watch brilliant content recorded by lousy camera work on a VHS camcorder, than watch Storaro shooting 35mm film of utterly lame boring crap.
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I couldn't agree more. But I have to bring up audio...I find it interesting that many of us lust gear pertaining to the camera, myself included, even though I KNOW that the same story told with bad footage and great audio will win over great footage and bad audio every time.
 
But some films can be okay and still interesting

Not everyfilm is a masterpiece. But competent actors and crew (DP, Directors) can save it a bit.

We all have movies we know aren't great but still enjoy.

Now take those jsut okay films and give it the horrible Troma approach.

Uccck.
 
but is it the camera that makes it look better or the people that work it?
and the cast crew.i personaly want to learn as much as possible with filmmaking,and i think many want the same,if its possible maybe we could get another thread going only for filmmaking,basicly anything that got to do with film accept gear,idk Barry is this possible?
 
john818 said:
i personaly want to learn as much as possible with filmmaking
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Honestly, there's a very limited amount of knowledge you can gain from an internet forum. You need to go out and get on a film set and see how it's done when it's done properly. When you watch a gaffer carefully subtract light from a scene using flags and nets or adding a small 100w eye light for some added pop you can appreciate the artistry involved in bringing an image to life.

I'm not trying to rain on your idea of a dedicated thread for the art of film. All I'm saying is that you'll learn a lot more spending time on the set as opposed to time on an internet forum.

Get out there, get dirty and learn.
 
Beat Takeshi said:
When I read posts that are heavy with the tech talk I feel like I'm really low on the totem pole and try to keep up but I just don't retain all that stuff. I just try to shoot to the best of my abilities and the tech stuff I do learn goes right out the window during the actual shoot for some reason and I rely on my instincts to help me through.
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Seems to me this is what most artist come to recognize along the way...
Look I cannot speak as an expert nor for an expert,,, but I can quote a few and the common denominator is always gonna come down to artistic guts and knowing the CAM you have right now.
HD is a marvelous thing. I'm glad to know we have arrived but, it's new to most, requires a new medium, new software, new hardware, yada yada yada.

When I get the time and money I'll go for it. Right now SD has all it will ever have and offer,,, take advantage !!
Let HD mature in the meantime. When it's so obiguis that my SD stuff is worthless I'll switch.

Just my 2 cents
more power to you Takeshi
 
Barry_Green said:
Whichever of 'em can tell a better story. I'd rather watch brilliant content recorded by lousy camera work on a VHS camcorder, than watch Storaro shooting 35mm film of utterly lame boring crap.
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Ditto !!!

the common denominator,,,

good film (story, location, sound, color/contrast)
vs
good gear (SD, HD, 8mm, 16mm, 35mm)



What can I say, I'm rooting for the lil fat girl from Ohio !!! LOL
 
milksac said:
Honestly, there's a very limited amount of knowledge you can gain from an internet forum. You need to go out and get on a film set and see how it's done when it's done properly. When you watch a gaffer carefully subtract light from a scene using flags and nets or adding a small 100w eye light for some added pop you can appreciate the artistry involved in bringing an image to life.

I'm not trying to rain on your idea of a dedicated thread for the art of film. All I'm saying is that you'll learn a lot more spending time on the set as opposed to time on an internet forum.

Get out there, get dirty and learn.
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Thnx milksac,,, I think that says it all,,,

there's nothing wrong with us treading here to share and learn
but the end results come from getting proactive.
That's how you milk the best out of your gear, not by recounting it's limitations but by making use of it's strongpoints to tell your story.
Your REALLY GOOD story.


cheers
 
john818 said:
but is it the camera that makes it look better or the people that work it?
and the cast crew.i personaly want to learn as much as possible with filmmaking,and i think many want the same,if its possible maybe we could get another thread going only for filmmaking,basicly anything that got to do with film accept gear,idk Barry is this possible?
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I'm with you john 100%

Look up above; directing thread.
 
Better gear is better, definitely. But I'm speaking from experience; I went to the inaugural CineVegas film festival and watched the UNLV student shorts. Some people had used film gear (UNLV even has a Panavision Gold 35mm camera), but one guy had used a VHS camcorder.

Most of the films were self-pretentious bullcrap about wanting to kill yourself or some hate-filled ragefest or whatever. But the VHS guy did this bizarre, creative, inventive little thing about trying to quit smoking. It was laugh-out-loud funny. The camerawork was pathetic, the editing was suspect, it was totally amateur in all ways -- and it was far, far superior to the more-polished angstfest and philosophical prattle the other guys did with their 16mm and 35mm film packages.

Another one was at the Nashville Film Fest, where a kid named Dan Bissell entered a short called something like "A Klompus Kind Of Christmas" IIRC. It was a full-on musical comedy, and it was very amateurish in execution but it was amazingly entertaining. The short that won that year was, IIRC, a $250,000-budget 35mm production by the wife of a famous musician, which was boring and predictable and actually even ended "wrong" if I was to be the judge. But I'll tell you what, if I was gonna hire someone, I woulda hired the Klompus kid. That kid knew how to make something that was entertaining!

Now -- give him a crew that knows how to fix the production value problems, and you'll have the best of both worlds. But I've seen plenty of production value with lousy story, and rarely do you get to see great entertainment (with or without great production value). Yes great production value helps, but -- it's like the icing on the cake. It's not the cake itself.
 
Barry_Green said:
Yes great production value helps, but -- it's like the icing on the cake. It's not the cake itself.
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I couldn't agree with you more -

These conversations always wind up in the same place... and I think your analogy is a good one. This isn't an either or scenario - clearly we should all be aiming for engaging and entertaining content WITH great production value....but they definitely are not equally weighted.

To further your analogy - which of these would you rather eat?
cake1.jpg


Personally - I'd rather have them both, the way they were meant to be enjoyed.
cake2.jpg


Settling for icing alone would be stupid - obviously.
But I see no reason why any of us should settle for cake alone - the icing makes it presentable, beautiful, and a hell of a lot more enjoyable to eat.

Clearly I have now beaten this analogy into the ground....
The point is - its not a either/or scenario.
To make a great film you need both sides of it.
Granted they may not be equally important, but they are both important.
If asked to choose one over the other I would hope we would all choose story and content over production -
but everytime these discussions crop up I can't help but think...why do we have to choose?
 
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Luis, the fact that I hate carrot cake is standing in the way of me fully understanding your analogy. Do you have any pictures of Devil's Food lying around?
 
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