OTHER: My PX270 Experience...

Experience #2

So I shot another wedding on Friday with the two PX270's and most of my original experience would be echoed again. However, this time I was prepared with more rented batteries and larger media so the shoot went much more smoothly. Overall, I felt faster with everything. The extra zoom reach and slow creeping zoom have come in handy many times already. The LCD is great with one big issue which I'll explain below. The 10bit 4:2:2 is awesome although truthfully, one wouldn't know the difference while shooting and those things will shine probably when I get to editing these in a couple months. We have another wedding this weekend and then I'll have to decide if I plan to keep them or not. I do believe at least one will be a part of our arsenal going forward but I'm not 100% sure yet. Without rambling on here...I'll point out my favorite points and gripes many of which are repeats of my first shoot. Again, this is all just MY experience...

LOVE:

Slow Zoom - It's awesome knowing we can zoom SOOO slow if we want to. The rocker is very easy to manipulate. It's also great being able to dial in the speed of the top rocker if you want.
LCD - The viewing angle is great and it's close to 6 times the resolution of what I was used to on the HMC's so it's shocking to be able to actually dial in focus. I haven't used the EVF much but the colors do look considerably more punchy than the somewhat flat colors in the LCD. I'd say the EVF looks more like what the output will look like. I know I could adjust the LCD's settings but I'm lazy like that and I'm fine with it. :)
FBC - Has helped already keep the flash banding at bay. Nice since I'm used to no banding coming from CCD sensor.
1080p60 at 10bit 4:2:2 50Mbps. - Can't say I've seen the fruits of this yet, but I'm sure I will later when editing and viewing.
No lens cap - Liking that feature.
The multiple media slots - Nice to have. There's even a little side slot up by the handle where I think you can put an SD card in and record a separate simultaneous proxy recording if you'd like. Doubt I'll do that but it's cool to know what's possible.
Low Light Performance - Exceeded my expectations. Or at the very least, it's what I had hoped for in a small sensor camera. See my previous post for details.

DON'T LOVE

LCD - As good as this thing is (and it's SOO much better than what I had) I wish it wasn't as reflective as it is. It's like looking in a mirror during the daytime. The LCD of the HMC150 was awful, but at least it was more matte finish. This is my biggest gripe. Granted, if you want to check your hair during the shoot you might like it a lot.
LCD Location - With an accessory on the shoe mount you can't close the LCD which would probably help save battery which would be a good thing since this camera loves battery juice.
Battery Readout - This has been covered well before this post so I'll leave it at that. Wish you could read out how much time was remaining. I also still don't love that when the battery does get within a minute or so of running out, the recording stops without warning.
"Camera Rolling" - I personally wish it was a bit more obvious when you are rolling. This is such a personal gripe, but it's a tiny little red REC icon that's almost lost on the screen. I wish there was a way to make this stand out more. Would be a nice safety net when you are running and gunning.
Back XLR placement - Not a huge fan, but most won't care. We just have something mounted to the side of the camera which gets in the way of this so we can't use it. Oh well.
No 4k - I know, I know. This can't really be a gripe. But you know what it's part of what is making me think twice about keeping both of these vs. getting a couple additional GH4's or some other 4k capable camera instead. For today, it's perfect. And there are so many advantages to this camera over a GH4 that I'm glad I have it. Just a thought.
Auto Focus Issue? - There's a weird thing I started noticing at the last wedding. This might just be me. I just don't know yet. Often times I'll run around not shooting but have the camera in hand. Most of the day is shot in MF, so it's not an issue but when AF is on, I started noticing that when I pulled up the camera to my eye the AF might have been on infinity...but yet the picture was soft. A quick tap of the zoom rocker and it INSTANTLY went away and everything was crystal clear again. I thought it was my eyes at first. Then I thought "maybe it's hot in here and it's fogging up my LCD". But neither of those were true. Then I thought, maybe it's getting focus on the floor when my hand is down and when I pick it up it needs to adjust to things now 8-10 feet away. But then why would the focus distance readout be at infinity. And why does a quick tap of the zoom instantly SNAP the softness away. It's not like it then adjusts and finds focus...it snaps instantly into focus. Seems odd. It happened several times over the night during dancing stuff where I often am running around in AF. There was decent light with our on camera LED's so I'm not sure what's up here. Again, this may be me, but it's something I definitely took note of on my 2nd day out with the camera.
Iris Ring - I may be the alone on this one but I like not having the Iris ring as a separate ring on the lens. I find myself knocking it accidentally since my left hand naturally settles near there. I'm sure I'll get over this soon enough. The sensitivity of all rings are great and feel great as does the whole camera in hand.

That's it. It's a huge upgrade from what I had and every camera will have their ups and downs and my downs are really me being picky. These cameras don't really get the big reviews that other DSLR and Mirrorless cameras get so I figured I'd share. Again, this is all usability stuff. After my first little low light test on day 1, I haven't really even looked at the output in detail from the two weddings we've shot. I did have an interesting chat with the photographer worth noting. Photographers are usually shocked when we roll up to higher end weddings without DSLRs. When I was dealing with lights for the reception (we often backlight the "main events" to add beauty and depth and a bump in overall light as well) he said, "well I'm not sure about lighting but that's why most people don't use those cameras and have moved on to cameras like these (pointing to his camera)". Again, I laughed it off and mostly remarked it's more the look than the low light that I was trying to manipulate. But sometimes I feel like saying "good luck taking your little DSLR and getting a 10 bit 4:2:2 50Mbps shot with a focal range of 28-616mm all while grabbing two XLR audio inputs and sending out an uncompressed secured SDI signal. Maybe you should just stick to getting one frame per second while I work on getting 60. I'm sure your moment in time will be great but trust me when I say that I have the same shot but mine moves, has audio, and includes everything that led up to that one moment and everything that came after." But instead I smiled and stayed friends. :) He did have very nice HDR shots which I can't get, but that's okay. I'm pretty happy with what I got too.

Happy shooting everyone...
 
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Just took these out of the box and only handled them for a little bit. My initial thoughts as compared to my HVXs.

I don't usually use manuals so I base these thoughts keeping that in mind.


Love how light it is compared to my HVX.

Low light and noise seems to be improved.

Zoom is awesome.

LCD is great.

EVF proximity sensor is cool.

Battery insertion is weird, don't seem to get it on the first try.

Doesn't "feel" as robust as previous cameras, probably the weight. I'm sure it's fine.

There does indeed seem to be a fan inside to cool it. You can feel heat being blown out from under the handle.

Took me a second to figure out that I was in auto mode and why nothing I was doing what working. Switch on the side corner.

Getting into the full menu is annoying. You gotta hold the menu down for longer than I'd like. Hope there's a way to change this. In fact, I hate this. HATE THIS.

There's no obviously marked shutter controls. Eventually figured out you use the side menu wheel to engage and change it.

Changing formats for the framerate you want can be confusing at first. Treats AVCI-60P, AVCI-30P, AVCI-24P as different recording codecs. So you gotta change that before you select a framerate.

Don't care for the separated XLR connectors, prefer them both close together.

I guess the intrgrated lens cap is nice, not a big deal to me.


Will post more when I shoot. This was just my first glance at handling them. I'm sure most of these "issues" are just about getting used to the camera.
 
Thank you for all the feedback.
The FBC sounds promising. After you work with some footage can you comment on what the resulting footage looks like when there are rapid flashes compared to the HMC150?

The slow zoom sounds great! Can it do a feather start/stop at the beginning and end of the zoom?

Is is considerably better in low light than the HMC150 before gain come into play?

Does anyone know if it's OIS is as good as the AC90 or AC8?
 
Thank you for all the feedback.
The FBC sounds promising. After you work with some footage can you comment on what the resulting footage looks like when there are rapid flashes compared to the HMC150?

The slow zoom sounds great! Can it do a feather start/stop at the beginning and end of the zoom?

Is is considerably better in low light than the HMC150 before gain come into play?

Does anyone know if it's OIS is as good as the AC90 or AC8?

It will be a while before I get to edit these weddings but I'll try to remember to check the footage after this Saturdays wedding. I do know that you can see just in the viewfinder that the banding is reduced/eliminated when you turn FBC on. As for the slow zoom, not quite sure about feathered start/stop. It can definitely slow down to a near stop which if that's what you mean, then yes. Otherwise, I haven't tried many zooms in my day (DVX/HMC/HPX/HVX) and this is by far the best. By far. It is about one full stop faster/brighter than the HMC at 0db. At 0db t looks like the HMC at 6db...only clean. Low light is very nice. Noticeably nice. As is noise handling as you go up in gain. As for the OIS, it's good, but I don't know what the AC90 is like so I can't compare. I have no complaints and I'm often pushed in real far while hand held. Really my only complaints are the ones listed in my posts. Otherwise, it's awesome.
 
Why does the lens go out of focus on quick snap zooms? Zoom slow and it holds fine, but on a snap zoom it'll go way out for a second half way through. Kinda annoying.
 
Why does the lens go out of focus on quick snap zooms? Zoom slow and it holds fine, but on a snap zoom it'll go way out for a second half way through. Kinda annoying.

Because it's not a parfocal lens. A parfocal lens would have more than doubled the price of the camera. When you znap zoom, you outrun the autofocus. If you go sufficiently slow, autofocus can keep up.
 
Because it's not a parfocal lens. A parfocal lens would have more than doubled the price of the camera. When you znap zoom, you outrun the autofocus. If you go sufficiently slow, autofocus can keep up.

Seems like another case of two steps forward one step back. Lenses on the DVX/HVX were great. Also see a lot of CA on these. Pretty think orange lines on the edges in my case.
 
UPDATE to MY EXPERIENCE:

So I returned the 2 PX270's.

Not because I didn't like them. I did. A whole lot. I liked almost everything about them. And I may end up purchasing one back in the near future. But I had 30 days to make that decision and after 30 days I really liked them but I was unsure because I did also like the GH4 that we were using. Knowing this might have been a possibility, I kept the cameras and boxes, etc in perfect condition. Done. There are many things the GH4 cannot do like LONG SLOW ZOOM, FBC (flash band compensation...WHY ISN'T THIS ON EVERY PANASONIC CMOS CAMERA?!), and of course in-camera 10bit 4:2:2 recording onto SDHC cards. I haven't edited anything yet so I haven't seen that benefit first hand, but I just need more time to decide. I was able to use them on 3 weddings and by the 3rd one I was really loving it. We just have 3 cameras and I can't make up my mind which combination is best for our style/look. Not yet anyway.

So chances are I'll get another one...for 30 days. :) Or, this time I may just keep it. I can't knock it for being a GREAT camera and an upgrade to every single small sensor camera out there including anything made by Sony, Canon, or JVC. There are a few gripes that I had that I've mentioned before but they were all relatively small ones. Who knows, I may be back here in a few weeks with a new "experience" with this camera, but for now...I'll keep that $11,500 in my wallet. For now. Sure makes my wife happy. :)
 
So your business model is to purchase cameras and return it before the 30 day deadline is up - just so you don't have to pay for it? Even though you admitted they're great cameras and worked just fine for your needs?
And now the company that provided them to you is stuck with used cameras they have to sell at a discount?
And you have plans to do it again, with the exact same camera?
Tell me, are you going to return the money you made shooting weddings to the married couples? Since you didn't actually have any camera expenses.

Remind me to never sell anything to you.
 
UPDATE to MY EXPERIENCE:

So I returned the 2 PX270's.

Not because I didn't like them. I did. A whole lot. I liked almost everything about them. And I may end up purchasing one back in the near future. But I had 30 days to make that decision and after 30 days I really liked them but I was unsure because I did also like the GH4 that we were using. Knowing this might have been a possibility, I kept the cameras and boxes, etc in perfect condition. Done. There are many things the GH4 cannot do like LONG SLOW ZOOM, FBC (flash band compensation...WHY ISN'T THIS ON EVERY PANASONIC CMOS CAMERA?!), and of course in-camera 10bit 4:2:2 recording onto SDHC cards. I haven't edited anything yet so I haven't seen that benefit first hand, but I just need more time to decide. I was able to use them on 3 weddings and by the 3rd one I was really loving it. We just have 3 cameras and I can't make up my mind which combination is best for our style/look. Not yet anyway.

So chances are I'll get another one...for 30 days. :) Or, this time I may just keep it. I can't knock it for being a GREAT camera and an upgrade to every single small sensor camera out there including anything made by Sony, Canon, or JVC. There are a few gripes that I had that I've mentioned before but they were all relatively small ones. Who knows, I may be back here in a few weeks with a new "experience" with this camera, but for now...I'll keep that $11,500 in my wallet. For now. Sure makes my wife happy. :)

You could have done the honest thing and rented and achieved the same goals. Not cool.
 
So your business model is to purchase cameras and return it before the 30 day deadline is up - just so you don't have to pay for it? Even though you admitted they're great cameras and worked just fine for your needs?
And now the company that provided them to you is stuck with used cameras they have to sell at a discount?
And you have plans to do it again, with the exact same camera?
Tell me, are you going to return the money you made shooting weddings to the married couples? Since you didn't actually have any camera expenses.

Remind me to never sell anything to you.

Haha! Will do.

I know, sounds crazy. But it's not all that bad really. It makes more financial sense to return them at this time while I make my decision. I wouldn't call it a business model, but I would call it "just business". If I did this all the time it would be nuts, but once...and maybe twice, isn't the end of the world. And these aren't struggling mom and pop stores I'm buying from. Cameras were returned mint and it's those big companies that have their 30 day policy so I'm just working within their guidelines in this particular case. I "might" do it again, but if I do it, it will probably only be with the purpose of keeping them. We'll see. It's a tough switch mid-season with 1-2 weddings every weekend, and go from a Camcorder style to a DSLR style which I'm not as experienced with so I need to take extra care that while I use these new cameras, I'm still able to give each couple the look, feel, style and coverage that they paid for. Going from HMC's to PX270's isn't too tough...But going from HMC's to GH4's is a much tougher switch. I could have easily just sat back and wondered how the new "best small sensor camera anywhere" handled things, or I could have stepped up and bought two of them. So I did, and I don't regret it a bit. Peace of mind.

As for expenses, I wish there were only equipment expenses. Camera ops, assistant editors, and advertising are the real killers. I don't mind doing this because it's an important decision for me and whatever cameras I end up with I'll be keeping for probably 2-3 years. Trust me, the place I returned the cameras to I spend thousands of dollars at regularly and, well, they are gonna be just fine. The cameras were babied while in my care. Any small discount they have to apply when reselling them is one they regularly offer other clients anyway so it's no real hit. I'm not breaking any rules, just working within them for a few months while I make my final decision. Happy days ahead! :)
 
You could have done the honest thing and rented and achieved the same goals. Not cool.

I would have. Truly. But the PX270's are not available to rent and there's a good reason (long story) I need to make this switch now and not a few months from now when they probably would be available to rent. I've never bought cameras and returned them before like this, but like I said, it's their policy. No rules broken and I saved the rental cost for 3 weddings while I really got to test these cameras out fully. That was invaluable. It wouldn't be "cool" if I did it all the time. But that's not the case so it's all good.
 
If he returned them within the 30 day limit set by the place he bought them from then I don't see the problem.

Those options are designed for cameras that are defective or don't work as advertised. When people abuse the system we all pay for it. I know it's been done before, and will be again, but we need to be cognizant of the effects of our behavior. It's a tactic truly broke movie makers have used in the past, but shouldn't when you have the money. All good though. Just expressing my opinion, not trying to jump down anyone's throat about it.
 
On the upside, there appear to be two field tested 270's available with hardly any time on them. Sounds like a good deal awaits someone.
 
On the upside, there appear to be two field tested 270's available with hardly any time on them. Sounds like a good deal awaits someone.

:cheesy: There you go! Always an upside.

I find it funny how some people react to this as if returning is such a bad thing. This isn't some case of a 3 day film being shot and I just bought a camera for it, used it, and returned it. I bought these two with intention to keep them both. Thoughtfully considered their upsides vs downsides and then decided I may go in a different direction because the downsides kept nagging me. And although I had saved the money for the last 3 years to buy something like these, it's not anything I'm financially prepared to just blow off because I feel bad about returning. This is hard earned personal savings, not some credit run up. After careful consideration and much debate, I returned the cameras. Someone else will get a deal and they'll get two mint cameras hardly used for less. And the company that sold them is gonna be just fine. After all, that $11,500 is gonna be spent on some combination of cameras/lenses at their site so everyone wins. The unsettled reaction may be due to one or two people taking my comment "I may do it again" as some dishonest practice that I'm running. Okay. No worries. Think whatever. My hope with this thread is that others who are considering the camera would get a thoughtful, user experience to help them with their purchase decision. One that's more than just an unboxing type write up that you see online. That's all. Not many people are out there with actual real world reviews on this camera beyond just listing it's specs and since renting was not an option, I decided to try it and report my experience to help others. There's two solid write ups that I did in this thread immediately after each wedding so my experience was fresh on my mind. Enjoy...
 
:cheesy: There you go! Always an upside.

I find it funny how some people react to this as if returning is such a bad thing. This isn't some case of a 3 day film being shot and I just bought a camera for it, used it, and returned it. I bought these two with intention to keep them both. Thoughtfully considered their upsides vs downsides and then decided I may go in a different direction because the downsides kept nagging me. And although I had saved the money for the last 3 years to buy something like these, it's not anything I'm financially prepared to just blow off because I feel bad about returning. This is hard earned personal savings, not some credit run up. After careful consideration and much debate, I returned the cameras. Someone else will get a deal and they'll get two mint cameras hardly used for less. And the company that sold them is gonna be just fine. After all, that $11,500 is gonna be spent on some combination of cameras/lenses at their site so everyone wins. The unsettled reaction may be due to one or two people taking my comment "I may do it again" as some dishonest practice that I'm running. Okay. No worries. Think whatever. My hope with this thread is that others who are considering the camera would get a thoughtful, user experience to help them with their purchase decision. One that's more than just an unboxing type write up that you see online. That's all. Not many people are out there with actual real world reviews on this camera beyond just listing it's specs and since renting was not an option, I decided to try it and report my experience to help others. There's two solid write ups that I did in this thread immediately after each wedding so my experience was fresh on my mind. Enjoy...

Your initial post about returning them made it sound like you did this as a habit. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Glad you cleared that up.
 
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