My new camera is a....

Shooter

Shooter

Veteran
For what its worth:

I bought an XL2 (PAL) today ( will collect it next week)

30+ years as a film cameraman shooting 35/16mm TVCs and this is my first foray into DV camera ownership. I have shot a bit of video tape over the years but tried to avoid it as much as possible.

Did I mention I also had part ownership in motion picture film processing laboratory (until recently).

Why have I got a DV camera ?.

Simple - right tool for the job. I have a project in mind and DV type images will suit me just fine.

I see the challenge not in making DV look like film ( cos' it wont !) ...but it will have 'a look' that will be appropriate to the project,.

I never want to hear or discuss "film look" - a pointless and non productive argument like MACs vs PCs. - (get a life)

The images will be strong, dynamic and help tell the stories as I want them told. I will use the full power of Post production and anything else to achieve what I want from my images.

I am excited as hell about the challenge with the new camera because I think I have "a very good eye" and I will make some great pictures... but best of all...I can do all of this from start to finish by myself.

All the shooting...all the processing...all the editing ...audio mixing...all the output to TV broadcast dubbs.

AT LAST I HAVE THE CONTROL OF THE WHOLE 9 YARDS

Damn - forgot I am not a musician... may need some help there :P
 
Re: My new camera is a....

Now you are in the very same spot I was in a few days ago, WAITING! When i got my XL2, I took pictures of it before the box was even opened all the way haha. Wow, 30+ years of experience. I hope to see your work on the XL2 someday. As for me I'm still learning as I go along but yeah, i heard enough of debates on which camera is better, what has better "film look". I'll be doing some test shots tomorrow so we'll see.
 
Re: My new camera is a....

[quote author=Shooter link=board=XL2;num=1100840685;start=0#0 date=11/18/04 at 21:04:45]
I never want to hear or discuss "film look" - a pointless and non productive argument like MACs vs PCs. - (get a life)[/quote]

Now, come on -- it may not be important to YOU -- and that's fine.  But "get a life" is uncalled for, because it *is* important to most of the members of this site, and precisely why we were interested in a 24p camera to begin with.  It *is* a worthwile discussion if it's important to you, so please try not to insult most of the board's membership with one of your first posts!

:D
 
Re: My new camera is a....

I never want to hear or discuss "film look" - a pointless and non productive argument like MACs vs PCs. - (get a life)
Click to expand...

that belongs in a book called "dumbest quotes ever."

thats just ignorant to say.
 
Re: My new camera is a....

While I'm still trying to understand the point of the thread... I think maybe that statement about filmlook was taken out of context - um, well perhaps.
 
Re: My new camera is a....

filmlook, meaning looks like film but shot on video? Iv'e seen some films shot on film and have that craplook, meaning shot on film but look like crap.
 
Re: My new camera is a....

Sorry any and all who took offense but Ive heard all the video vs film ( and the MAC vs PC) and the "film look" discussions I ever want to. I have never heard compelling, conclusive definitions on these matters because the topics are all very subjective (and that is as it should be). I just stated my position and the intention was certainly not to discourage anyone else from finding enlightenment in the subject. Anyway I would rather be out shooting than yakking and posting to web forums but I did come here to learn about DV ...and if my very few posts reduce my status to state my opinion...so be it. Maybe I am in the wrong forum :-/

(funny...no one even asked me why I chose the XL2 over the DVX)

If there was a point to my post - it was that I am able to accept the "DV look" images that my new camera and my post facilities will produce but most of all I was just simply excited that I was a total production package enabling me to express myself in my own time and manner . When I want to shoot film , that is what I will do. Same goes for DV. Hey I'm comfortable with both and it's not a competition.

Shooter turns down the sensitivity by -18dB... ducks for cover from a storm of drop-outs and exits room to get his heads cleaned.... :P
 
Re: My new camera is a....

LOL

I think it stems from the majority of ours goals being to make it look as 'filmic' as possible. We know it doesnt look like 35mm but damn if we cant make it look like Super16. I've seen some insane work using the DVX that you would swear "That's DV?".

It is a goal to strive for. The lot of us have a kind of trained eye but if we can remove the video stigma from the 'average veiwer' with one of our films then we're feeling pretty damn good.

35mm is the masta blasta of the filmamking formats and we're trying hard to get close as we just cant afford to get closer.

No one has taken too much offense to the comment but keep in mind, there's nothing wrong with trying to pull it off.


So, why did you buy the XL2 instead of the DVX? And yes, Im just curious for curious' sake.
 
Re: My new camera is a....

O.K

Here would be my final input on the matter (and not too far away from your own post John).

My reference will always be 35mm - and I have seen a lot of it, shot a lot of it and processed a lot of it. I have sat in on hundreds of telecine sessions of my own shots as well as monitored by attendance, some of the best d.p's (in the commercial world) telecine sessions. ( a very pleasurable function of my laboratory business). I do not feel that I have to emulate it though but prefer to find the new look - DV Look. ( and that does not mean "video look" BTW) eg. Check out the post with the BMW grabs from the Mini35/DV - call it what you want but the images are excellent :

are they filmic ? are they DVic ? are they video ? - (YES TO ALL_

Most important - DO THEY WORK ? - ABSOLUTELY YES !

To strive for a filmic look is everyones goal - including my own - becuse the reference or benchmark is set by film. I guess I have a problem with the fact that in any discussion of "the look".. one finds that it usually turns into requests for settings and plug-ins that will instantly turn chicken sh*t into Chicken Pie. Wouldnt matter if it was shot on film or DV. Lit or unlit, a drama or a wedding video (eg.The big laboratory plugin I was always asked for by the 1st time D.P was bleach bypass - why - "because XYZ used it in 'abc' and I liked it"). How about the constant requests on NLE sites for plugins to make it look like an old time Chaplin movie !

Film making and cinematography is a craft requiring user input and effort and mainly " an eye". Old fashioned maybe but ...when did creativity go out of fashion ?

XL2 choice - simplE - it felt and looked like a film camera, it fitted my large hands, I had used and liked Canon Fluorite lenses on film cams, body seemed more robust and better built, better button and control layout, better hand hold ( ex steadicam op and I like hand held shooting), great zoom dampening, data free viewfinder by button push, excellent 16:9 image...better op manual...hey.. it suited me better on more levels than the DVX (which I tried for a three day shoot and actually got excellent results from .) I could easily do a side by side image output evaluation but wont.. what would I be checking - electronic circuitry and image processing function. Let's face it ; Thats what a video camera is and does. Once the pure light hits the electronics its down to electron (digital) manipulation. Nothing organic... just 0's,1's & 2's

On reflection - Starting to wonder why I am going down this DV route !
 
Re: My new camera is a....

That was a solid take on the subject matter. I especially like "...the new look - DV Look that does not mean 'video look'..."

And I agree, there are no magic settings. It comes down to the 5 C's (camera angles, continuity, cutting, close-ups and composition...).

On the subject of the Xl2 over the DVX? I think both cameras are killer choices and it will always come dwon to the folks behind it.

Anyway, welcome. DV is a great medium for pro's and amatuers. Hang around, we're a mellow bunch.
 
Re: My new camera is a....

[quote author=Shooter link=board=XL2;num=1100840685;start=0#0 date=11/18/04 at 21:04:45]I see the challenge not in making DV look like film ( cos' it wont !) ...but it will have 'a look'  that will be appropriate to the project.[/quote]


..i know youve turned a deaf ear to the subject, but anytime your up to the task it would be fun to sit down in a room and screen various productions, and without prior knowledge have you discern which ones were originated on film, and which ones were originated on DV. ..because just like soda brands and and all sorts of other stuff, when the blindfold goes on.. ones bias has no foothold, and tables are often turned in favor of the truth.


..anyway, glad to have you aboard. congrats on your XL2 purchase, its a great cam.
 
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[Did I mention I also had part ownership in  motion picture film processing laboratory (until recently).]

This is the part that got me interested.  But it sounds like you sold your interest.

Could or can that lab to an uprez to 35mm and could or can it give a break to the DVX user memebership?
 
Re: My new camera is a....

Neil - I wouldn t want to sit in a room and spend too much time trying to discern the origination of the images. Because, I would hope the story and the images would blow me away and secondly the crossover of origination into the digital realm blurs the edges of the process anyway. Most of my experience in later years involves film origination and digital finishing ( Post Prod). They both need each other to maximise the creative possibilities and that is exciting and exactly why it is timely for me to embrace DV as a shooting tool. Hence the XL2 purchase.

Technology has now reached the stage where by any visual idea is possible to be shown convincingly on a screen.

Gary : Lab & up rezzing ( film scan & output) : I seriously wished to install this hardware into our laboratory. My stumbling block ws that we were a neg only lab (Front -end) and it would have required installing print and print processing also. I saw and participated in a few tests - mainly S16mm origination via HD, 2k and 4k - to screen on 35mm film. HD was more than acceptable and surprisingly close to 2k , 4K was outrageously superior but kind of impractical currently( immense data storage requirements). Never seen mini DV out puts but have seen Digi beta to 35 film and was I impressed. (Lenses let that show down I might add and despite all the other factors that contribute to filmic looks - the compositions and framing were unachieved by the Digibeta standard zoom lens and its characterisitics - these showed in the result).
 
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Hang around, we're a mellow bunch.
Click to expand...

Except for me!


Shooter, you said something about you're not a musician. Well if you need one, I know a fella.   ;)

Shooter, I would to see some of your past work if possible?
 
Re: My new camera is a....

Sure - I ll post some screen grabs of some of my previous work somewhere shortly.
 
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