My intro. Dvx100a outdated? now, HVX200...

justmarvin

justmarvin

Well-known member
This being my first post in the DVXuser.com forum, I think a brief intro is due. Like many of you here, filmmaking is my passion, love, and dream, and so I aspire to develop the technical skills to make a profession out of filmmaking. (I haven't slept yet, and being up here reading the dvxuser forums at 5:30am, you better believe that filmmaking is my passion! :P) Anyway, I have seriously saved up to buy a prosumer digital camera in which Panasonic seems to be king. I was searching to buy the DVX100a which has a price range of 3000+ However, I came across the article about the HVX200 which I hear is being released sometime in Semptember! And that's practically now. So, with the soon-to-be-released HVX200, I assume that would be the new "must-have" for filmmakers. As I would not be able to make another purchase like this (for a camera) for quite a long time, should I make the HVX200 my one time camera investment? And for 6 grand, is it worth it?

I love the film look and am trying to avoid the live, crisp appearance that digital technology produces. With DVX100a and HVX200, I am under impression that the film-look is achievable (and I get butterflies just thinking about it).

I am brand new to digital filmmaking. I've ordered a lot of books on amazon.com to get me up to par on all the technical stuff for digital filmmaking. And, I've found DVXuser.com to be a wonderful resource. Anyway, being brand baby-new to the digital world, my fear is that if I jump straight into using the HVX200 camera I might find it to be way over my head. With the DVX100a, however, I was confident and pleased to find all the learning material that is available. I was especially looking forward to devouring Barry Green's instructional book "DVX" and DVD in order to build a foundation with digital filmmaking. But with the HVX200 being brand new, little instructional material exists; thus, as I said before, I might be finding myself way over my head. On another note, since HVX200 seems to be better than DVX100a, I'm sure there will be a whole cult-like following of the new model.

Again, as a one time investment (for a long time) in filmmaking, should I go ahead and go straight for the HVX200?

My intended use for the digital cameras is to make feature films and shorts. I would be the cinematographer/director/producer. I would be entering my finished products to various film festivals, with the end goal of marketing and selling my product for distribution to the various film and video markets. Basically, I need something that will help me survive and keep me afloat with filmmaking as a business and not just a hobby. Also, if you have any other suggested informational material like a book, an audio course, or DVDs, stuff that has tremendously helped you out, which in turn would probably help me, please let me know. I have a few of my own recommendations of must-read/listen-to's, but i'll save that for another post. :)

Cheers,
justmarvin
 
My 2 cents:

Get the HVX*, which should be available towards the end of the year, not September. I'd suggest holding out for it, as it will give you much more bang for your buck, starting with native 16x9 widescreen shooting on MiniDV. You can move on to HD when you're ready for it.




*IF you meet the following criteria:
1) Have editing hardware and software that can handle DVCProHD material, such as FCP or Avid, and a powerful PC or Mac with TONS of hard disk space (at least 1 Terabyte).
2) You have the time, patience, and drive to practice, learn, and practice some more. Buy books on directing, editing, cinematography, etc.
3) You keep coming back to DVXuser and post pics of your camera, grabs, video clips, etc.
 
.. may advice is to get the DVX and see if its actually something you still want to do after youve passed some water under the bridge and completed a couple projects. if youve never done any of this before even the DVX is probably going to alot to work with for quite a while for you. you can always upgrade.. but if you green, and you make such a huge investment in the camera alone.. your audio and other departments that are VERY IMPORTANT in the process will likely suffer. i think youd benefit more from going with a DVX or even less expensive camera like a DVC30 pending how new you are to everything. and using the extra money for accessories and supplies and equipment. if you feel your going to be a natural at it then get the DVX and nothing less. get the HVX only if you can afford it as well as the tools to use it and still pick up all the pther things youll need to make a quiality production.. either way.. youve made a good choice in a camera. but just realises that there are other aspects that are just as as sometimes more important that the camera itself. either way youll likely be shooting SD but youll have DVCpro 50 with the HVX
 
Thanks for your thoughts JRV. Much appreciated. :)

As for your criteria. Yes, I'm getting a ton of books to study up on. And, ofcourse, will definitely keep coming back to DVXuser. Now, for the computer, that's another thing on my investment list ^_^;; Do you have any recommendations? I've seen some good stuff from http://www.alienware.com Do those meet the specs? And I'll be getting my hands on the Avid software soon.

I feel like I need a manual, or a for-dummies book right now, hehe. What I mean is, there are so many add-ons to everything. Like the Avid software has a bunch of ad-ons, not to mention some additional hardware to, right? I haven't done the research on Avid - though I have played around with the software itself. But what else is needed? You need some kind of hardware external box for Avid (ok, my cluelessness is surfacing for all to see now... :P). Then there's all the additional stuff for cameras, and stuff for sound, mics, lavs, lighting equipment, etc. If there's a complete guide for filmmaking out there, please let me know. Something that will take me from here... to there... faster... than if I had to weed through the scattered pieces all on my own.

Cheers,
justmarvin
 
iamloser said:
.. see if its actually something you still want to do after youve passed some water under the bridge and completed a couple projects.
Click to expand...

I'm positive this is what I want to do. :)

if youve never done any of this before even the DVX is probably going to alot to work with for quite a while for you. you can always upgrade..
Click to expand...

Upgrade in lenses and accessories you mean? But I'll be stuck with the DVX for a long, long time. I can only afford to dish out a couple grand for a camera only once. So it's either the DVX100a or the HVX200.

but if you green, and you make such a huge investment in the camera alone.. your audio and other departments that are VERY IMPORTANT in the process will likely suffer.
Click to expand...

That's true. Any recommendations for the audio and other departments? I would never sacrifice on sound quality. I've read a bit about DVXusers recording sound on a boom but having it being recorded on camera. I've worked with 16mm film mostly, and sound crystal synced was recorded separately on deck. Any thoughts on how to make the best on digital sound - equipment, etc.

I think youd benefit more from going with a DVX or even less expensive camera like a DVC30 pending how new you are to everything. and using the extra money for accessories and supplies and equipment. if you feel your going to be a natural at it then get the DVX and nothing less.
Click to expand...

Yes, after my research, I wouldn't get anything else lower than a DVX100a.

get the HVX only if you can afford it as well as the tools to use it and still pick up all the pther things youll need to make a quiality production..
Click to expand...

My budget by the way is $10,000

either way.. youve made a good choice in a camera. but just realises that there are other aspects that are just as as sometimes more important that the camera itself. either way youll likely be shooting SD but youll have DVCpro 50 with the HVX
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for your thoughts. I enjoyed your post.

Cheers,
justmarvin
 
By the way, when I get back into my part time job, my budget may increase if necessary. But right now, I have $10,000 saved for sure to purchase film equipment (lights, cameras, etc.).

Cheers,
justmarvin
 
With $10,000 I'd get the following:

1) HVX200 (no P2 cards) = $6000
2) Good shotgum mic = $350
3) XLR cable = $25
4) Tripod = $350

Then for editing:

5) decent PC laptop computer = $1500
6) Avid Xpress Pro HD = $1700

or on a Mac:

5) 12" PowerBook = $1700
6) Final Cut Studio HD = $1300

Then you get:

7) 1 Terabyte external hard disk = $1000
8) Long Firewire cable = $30
9) CRT monitor to have two screens for editing (you don't want to edit HD on a 12" screen) = $100

You end up roughly with $12,000 with either setup (the Mac laptop will probably cost a little more, but Avid is very expensive compared to Final Cut, so it evens out).

This is probably more than you wanted to spend, and for recording in HD you'll be tied to the laptop via Firewire until you can afford P2 cards or a Firestore-type device. But you could always shoot MiniDV first, and move to HD when you're ready.
 
First off, I'm jealous b/c I would love to buy the HVX or DVX. Either way you'll have plenty of fun.

My 2 cents is think about using your budget to rent the latest/greatest equipment and make a film or even several films. Dive into the process of production to learn what you like and don't like to do. Do you really want to direct? Maybe just DP? Would you really enjoy doing both at the same time as well as produce?

You could do several projects with a small crew (paid or not) and some rented gear to get that on-set experience. Experience what it's like to write something then translate it to the screen. Learn what it takes to produce a movie. Learn how to direct actors and a crew. See how it feels to edit a film.

Basically I'm just suggesting you actually try things out before buying anything. Get a feel for what you really enjoy within the production process and then go from there. The worst mistake is to buy a bunch of gear and then not really do anything with them except have it sit there.

Plus, if you make a few films now it will help you begin the networking process to build a good, solid crew/team you can trust when making future projects.

If you've already been involved in prior productions and know the whole game....then my whole post should be disregarded. :)

Good luck!!!
 
jrv - I'd like to know where you are buying your gear or what you consider to be a good shotgun mic, laptop, tripod, crt monitors?
 
My gut feeling is that HD is almost, but not quite, ready for prime time. The fact is that most people are still viewing video content on 4:3 standard def TV sets, and that isn't changing anytime soon.

The HVX is sure to be a stunning piece of equipment, but bear in mind you'll need a robust editing solution to handle the HD.

The DVX is itself a powerful piece of equipment. People have successfully shot feature films with it.

Having the latest and greatest camera won't make you a better filmmaker--in fact, it may serve to highlight your weaknesses! For eample, focus is much more of an issue in HD because the audience notices incremental changes that might be ignored in SD. Also, sets & costumes need to be that much better (the Tonight Show with Jay Leno had to completely transform its set when switching to HD because the old one looked cheap in HD).

Once you get your camera, you'll want a crane, steadicam, tripod, car mount, etc. etc. The camera is the beginning, not the end!

I'll switch to the HVX when the time is right, but probably won't be an early adopter.
 
For someone who hasn't a clue to which camera or computer to get (do you know which OS or NLE you prefer?) you have your work cut out for you that is for sure. I have an expression for your kind. It's like when you see a 'Soccer mom' in a Quad Cab V8 Pick Up truck trying to drive and manuever in a parking lot at the local Target.

It's always "Too Much Truck"

I reccomend to start:

DVX100A
Dell PC Workstation Xeon
Vegas 6 (At least Version 5)
Tripod by Bogen 503
Senn K6 Combo for sound
A Neil Rowe Cine Dolly Kit
Lens Shade that holds 2 filters
A UV Filter from Hoya

But hey! Go for it and good luck!
 
don't buy a thing. retrofit your computer (if possible) into a basic editing station.

you sound like a guy being seduced by equipment. don't fall for it. it's a trap. write a script for a short film, rent some equipment, see what happens. rent rent rent. for now anyway. the longer you wait, the better the price, the better the equipment. way way WAY too soon to buy equipment.
 
Sirius_Doggy said:
jrv - I'd like to know where you are buying your gear or what you consider to be a good shotgun mic, laptop, tripod, crt monitors?
Click to expand...

Shotgun mic:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...615&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

Laptop (PC):
http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/cto_inspn9300?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
The Mid-Range Inspiron

Laptop (Mac):
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APP...gFXkE1RiU81st/0.0.11.1.0.6.23.1.1.1.1.0.0.1.0
The 12" PowerBook w/Superdrive

CRT monitor:
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/ProductDetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&cs=19&sku=A0160017&category_id=3052

Tripod:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...044&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation


That said, I have to agree with the others that suggested renting the equipment at first. Try the DVX, HVX, HD100, and see which feels better in your hands. It's the only way to be sure before plunking down $10,000.
 
Thanks everyone for all your input.

I know, I know... I have A LOT to learn. And I am willing and committed to doing just that. And I will always be thankful for those who help me along the way. So, thanks for all who posted some insight.

As for renting, this is not an option for me. I am currently living in Guam, a beautiful island -- and an awesome and unique place for a film production, seriously! And this is the place I plan on starting my first few shorts and features. I love the fact that digital is looking more and more like film, and this totally eliminates the middle men. No more processing film, lab fees, negative cutters/conformers, transfering film to DV, etc. (What do you guys use to do foley and sound?) Digital Filmmaking seems to be my key to getting started while on the island of Guam. I want to get my feet wet with a few shorts, which will prepare me to do a feature here in Guam based on an idea that I had for a long time. As of now, I'm ordering material to do some self-study. I will do all I can to gain the knowledge with all the 'technical' to allow me to bring to life the 'creative.' So believe me when I say that I'm committed to letting this passion be more than just bottled up. This will be my career. I admit, maybe this is a fool-hearted commitment. I have already gotten this far -- I don't know about you guys, but committing to such a "risky" and "unstable" career as many have told me (and there is truth to what they say), well so many things ran through my mind. I am basically trading off "security" for "risk," but hey, we only live once. ;) I've turned down taking over my father's prestigious business, and I am also contemplating not finishing college and using my remaining college funds to help me reach my filmmaking goals.

I have had a few experience in production whilst in South Carolina as I majored in Film & Video production over there. I went there for other reasons on top of the film major (I always believed that film is something someone can learn on there own, and a degree is not necessary to be successful in filmmaking. So like I said, there were other reasons on top of the major). Being a Christian, I decided last minute to enroll into Bob Jones University a Christian liberal arts college. Luckily, they were in the middle of a production for a DVD feature there, and I helped out. I worked a lot with 16mm film over there. I was that student who used their sound room facilities and lighting and acted like I was actually allowed to be there lol. I remember shooting a black and white experimental short experimenting with contrast -- wow, I immediately fell in love with the film medium, it is beautiful -- something I hope digital will emulate well. Anyway, I couldn't complete the whole four years there, as some personal matters had come up and I came back home to Guam. So here I am. I attended the local university here and majored in business, bleh, enuf' said about that. With my credits transferred here to the local university, I may be able to get a business degree in one year, but I am still contemplating whether or not to continue. I don't know if I want a degree to possibly "fall back" on. Well, right now I'm taking a semester off and doing a self-study. Getting a bunch of books off of amazon.com.

To rent or not to rent? For 16mm or 35mm film, in my oppinion, the most economical thing to do would be to rent. 16mm/35mm Film cameras with all its accessories (lenses, etc) are way too expensive to buy. But with digital, you get the whole kit n' kaboodle for way way under 10 grand. I also see owning the digital camera as something akin to your own personal film school, available to you 24/7. Since you own the camera, you have so much time to read instructional material, books, etc. and learn it hands on. Also, there is so much room for your own experimental trials. I would think there are so much benefits to actually owning the digital camera unless you are in need of the higher end digital camera models like the one they used for Star Wars and Once Upon A Time in Mexico. Those are pretty pricey, yah? If you rent a digital camera package, then your concentration is more shifted towards "getting it right" than learning from your mistakes. You are trying to get your script on screen before a deadline, and so there is little room for error. Whereas, actually owning the camera, you are gears are shifted towards learning and learning from mistakes isn't as daunting. Anyway, with all that said, I don't have the option of renting a camera here on Guam anyway.

Cheers,
Justmarvin
 
sounds a very very cheap calculation, JRV. You won't get to far with that. Justmarvin, how about the JVC. You can probably tweak that to you likings to get the film look you want.... And you can shoot HD without having to spend half of your budget on P2 cards...

Problem is only, it is more a cam for the seasoned user.... (only all manual controls...)
 
I agree with your comments about renting. Renting makes sense for 16mm/35mm film projects. Primer (Sundance winner) was shot on a rented camera.

But with digital video, costs are much more reasonable. And when you own a camera like a DVX (or HVX), you'll spend hours getting comfortable with your equipment. The resources here on DVXUser are phenomenal! It's like an online film school.

My reservations about the HVX are whether it's 'too much truck' as John says. You'll need a monster PC to edit, and then there are the P2 cards. :shocked: By the time you shell out $10k for an HVX with two P2 cards, with the same money you could've bought a DVX with ALL the goodies (lighting, audio equipment, tripod, steadicam, DVRigPro, crane, car mount, wide-angle lens, editing station...heck, maybe even a laptop too).

One other wrinkle to throw into your shopping mix--the DVX100b. We haven't heard much about it, but apparently there will be one.
 
I agree that it sounds like you're being seduced by the equipment. If your primary goal is to learn, rather than make polished, finished films, then it really seems like the HVX is overkill for you. Your goal is to learn digital. The DVX is a digital camera that can produce great images. Most of the skills you learn there will be directly applicable to any digital workflow. So why waste $4000 on something you don't need. You could buy a lot of other hardware you're going to want with $4000.

I also think it's pretty silly to expect to be editing HVX material on a 12" Powerbook. Even just dealing with SD, that's a workspace nightmare. If you don't need a laptop, why pay a premium for one? For the same price you'll get a desktop twice as powerful, with resolution to match. But then again maybe I'm spoiled by multiple monitors.

Bottom line is that you should minimize your investment as much as possible. Cameras devalue quickly. Lights, mics, and so on don't. You said you loved working with the contrast of film - which is a sign that you may end up hating digital. Don't jump too far into the deep end.

On the other hand, if you buy that HVX and end up losing interest in it, I'd be happy to take it off your hands for half whatever you paid. :)
 
I just bought the Dvx100a - I didn't know about this HD camera coming out but couldn't have afforded it anyway. Plus for the work I do I wouldn't be able to be hooked up to a laptop.
But - I'm still deciding on what software to purchase. Barry Green is a big proponent of Vegas 6 for its compatability for the DVX. I had been planning to buy a mac laptop and get final cut pro, but Barry's recommendation pulled me up short. I'm now considering going the PC route. There's no way I could afford Avid Express Pro HD anyway. Vegas 6 is only $480. It also has only very modest system requirements for the computer. They have a 30 day trial you can download, and the tech told me that they would be willing to answer a few tech questions even during the trial period.

On another note - Has anyone heard of Studio 12? A friend told me that Avid just bought Pinnacle and will be coming out with new software called Studio 12.

Also, having shot 20 hours with my DVX - I clearly will need a stabilization system - you cannot walk with the camera with out the bouncing making the footage unusable. I've been looking at options at express video supply - www.evsonline.com. I think an inexpensive stabilization system is going to cost me $800 to $1000.
 
ballyhoo42 said:
I had been planning to buy a mac laptop and get final cut pro, but Barry's recommendation pulled me up short. I'm now considering going the PC route. There's no way I could afford Avid Express Pro HD anyway. Vegas 6 is only $480. It also has only very modest system requirements for the computer. They have a 30 day trial you can download, and the tech told me that they would be willing to answer a few tech questions even during the trial period.
Click to expand...

Reconsider the Mac route, buddy. You get any new mac laptop with iMovie which is not a prefessional NLE in its own but it's a good start - free of charge. With more experience, there is Final Cut Express at appr. 290$. You might even get it at 200$ when purchased with the laptop. This mac route is far less complicated to handle OS-wise and it's almost impossible to crash it as the OS is based on Unix. PLUS: No viruses and such things even if you use it to surf the internet. I am working in both "worlds", I have Vegas, too, and albeit the fact that I like the concept it's based on, I almost always use the mac route. Why? The overall integration of video, sound and graphics is IMHO more convincing, easier to handle and simpler to understand. No offence, Barry, just my 2 cents. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top