GH4 My colorist was really surprised with V-Log

renegadewill

renegadewill

Well-known member
I colored two new gh4 internal v-log music videos recently, both with the colorist that I have been working with for years now. He was very impressed and said it easily took his custom luts and allowed him to color the footage just like he would alexa footage (the alexa footage can be pushed further, obviously). He said that Panasonic should have charged $500 for it and it would still be worth it! One of the videos comes out in late December and the other comes out in early January. I'll throw them up here when they get released.
 
Internal 8bit. We did battle a little bit of banding, but just on two out of 150 or so shots. It's obviously not alexa 444, but for what it is he was very impressed.
 
I don't think charging $500 vlog for a $1500 consumer camera would have been the right move - "worth it" or not. True, Arri, Red and such charge a LOT of new things and licensing of codecs etc, but that's full on pro gear and budgeted. GH4 is a cool point and shoot that is good enough for commercial and indie film makers. $500 ? I don't think so.

So, he can drop his standard LUTs on it? Man, I've never shot anything where "standard luts" work for everything. But I don't do commercial work either.
 
wwjd said:
I don't think charging $500 vlog for a $1500 consumer camera would have been the right move - "worth it" or not. True, Arri, Red and such charge a LOT of new things and licensing of codecs etc, but that's full on pro gear and budgeted. GH4 is a cool point and shoot that is good enough for commercial and indie film makers. $500 ? I don't think so.

Think about how they could have just abandoned the GH4 months to possibly a year ago, but instead decided to rework the software. That's awesome considering sony and blackmagic just dump out a new camera every 6 months. The v-log upgrade is also something that I don't think most users should even bother with. If you don't have a real colorist, you really shouldn't even shoot it.

So, he can drop his standard LUTs on it? Man, I've never shot anything where "standard luts" work for everything. But I don't do commercial work either.
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He is not dropping standard luts on the footage. No real colorist is just dropping luts, tons and tons of color work ontop of the luts. Plus, the luts he has are around $4k for the license, and we aren't sitting infront of his laptop, we are in a real color suite at a post house in Santa Monica, CA. This is why v-log isn't for everyone, but it works out great for me on projects when the budget allows for a color grade.
 
wwjd said:
I don't think charging $500 vlog for a $1500 consumer camera would have been the right move - "worth it" or not.
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Obviously the gist of his comment was that V-log is under valued from a colorist perspective. I really hope that the GH5 can record 10-bit 4:2:2 internal which should fix many of the current GH4 internally recorded V-log issues.
 
TheDingo said:
Obviously the gist of his comment was that V-log is under valued from a colorist perspective. I really hope that the GH5 can record 10-bit 4:2:2 internal which should fix many of the current GH4 internally recorded V-log issues.
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TheDingo totally understands the point of my post. That would be super awesome if the GH5 offered all that. The biggest problem with v-log is operator error.
 
I get that it fits the colorists flow better, matches other cameras, but it is still worse quality for 8-bit than what is already built in. Yeah, that's pixel peeping a lot, but looks and feels like a downgrade to me. Yes, it is better in 10-bit exterbal recorded (had they frickin told us that I would have not bothered) but compared to the years old CINESTYLE from Technicolor for Canon which was an improvement for free, VlogL for $100 is kinda of a rip off. Let alone worth $500 for professional colorists to work with consumer grade clips? I know it is an exciting development, but I don't share to cost to value he sees. Rather just rent an Alexa. :)
 
wwjd said:
but it is still worse quality for 8-bit than what is already built in.
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Panasonic wanted to make it compatible with the 16 F-stop Varicam 35 V-log, so the GH4 V-log L doesn't make the best use of the 8-bit format. Was this a good idea ? Maybe not in the short run, but if we can get to a newer camera that records 10-bit internally then it might be a different story. I know for myself that 10-bit 4:2:2 internal recording is about the only feature that would convince me to immediately buy the GH5 when it comes out next year.
 
renegadewill said:
I colored two new gh4 internal v-log music videos recently, both with the colorist that I have been working with for years now. He was very impressed and said it easily took his custom luts and allowed him to color the footage just like he would alexa footage (the alexa footage can be pushed further, obviously). He said that Panasonic should have charged $500 for it and it would still be worth it! One of the videos comes out in late December and the other comes out in early January. I'll throw them up here when they get released.
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This is music to my ears. Thank you for sharing, you made my day.
May I ask if your colorist transcodes to a different codec before grading ?
 
wwjd said:
I get that it fits the colorists flow better, matches other cameras, but it is still worse quality for 8-bit than what is already built in. Yeah, that's pixel peeping a lot, but looks and feels like a downgrade to me. Yes, it is better in 10-bit exterbal recorded (had they frickin told us that I would have not bothered) but compared to the years old CINESTYLE from Technicolor for Canon which was an improvement for free, VlogL for $100 is kinda of a rip off. Let alone worth $500 for professional colorists to work with consumer grade clips? I know it is an exciting development, but I don't share to cost to value he sees. Rather just rent an Alexa. :)
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An Alexa Classic is around $725-1000 for a one day rental and that doesn't include lenses, countless accessories, and don't forget insurance.
 
renegadewill said:
TheDingo totally understands the point of my post. That would be super awesome if the GH5 offered all that. The biggest problem with v-log is operator error.
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I respectfully disagree. I believe the biggest problem was that V-log was sold to GH4 users without disclosing that it's next to useless (excessive banding, horrible noise and chroma blocking/magenta macroblocking) without an external recorder.
 
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Under certain situations v-log does great, but I agree that if you have any low-variation color situation such as the sky or a blank wall, it will produce banding and it really rears its ugly head in 8-bit.
 
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Sky's, walls, pavement, sidewalks... Makes for a unforgiving requirements. I think enough demonstration has been made on these boards that Cine D can recover about the same information when exposing to protect highlights and raising shadows in post without the nasty artifacts of V-log l. However, V-log l does have the best colours of the bunch. Still not enough of a trade-off when the rest of your footage is crippled. Considering v-log needs to be treated in post, it has no place in an 8-bit world.
 
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