My $2000 budget

D

DDirector

Veteran
I am looking at purchasing a new camera (my first camera) and I am still not sure what to get.

I have talked on other forums and to various people, with no answer yet.

I was originally interested in the Scarlet, but the price is twice my limit. Then I went on to the Canon 7D, although its great, I would like to learn with video cameras rather than DLSR's.
Now, I'm down to the Canon XH-A1, and I also found some used Panasonic HVX200's for the same price.

So, at this $2000 price range for a used camera. What would you suggest would be my best camera to get?

I am looking for something that has:
HD 1080p - also considering 1080i
24f
good in low light

any thoughts on the XH-A1. Would you say this would be the best camera I can get at my price? Or the HVX200? Or possibly something else?

Thanks.
 
It really comes down to preference. I own and operate a Canon XH-A1 and it's a great camera. Canon makes nice lenses and glass, and it's clearly evident in the footage quality in my opinion. That's not to say the Panasonic lines (HVX and HPX) are any slouch. In my professional opinion, Leica just doesn't quite stack up to Canon glass - but it's still very good. I've seen great footage quality on both the XH-A1 and the HVX200 and the HPX170, so it really comes down to what you like as far as workflow.

The Canon XH-A1 is a tape based workflow - it uses minidv tapes or hdv tapes. The HVX200 has a P2HD card system, and a tape drive (which only records SD). The HPX170 is P2HD only, a tapeless workflow. There's pros and cons on both sides, but tapeless workflow seems to be the flavor of the day - it's fast, efficient, and in the long run saves money. On the other hand, tape based workflow is tried and true, and it's archivable. If your computer crashes, you've always got the master on tape - whereas once you load the footage off a P2HD card and onto your computer, clear the card and re-use it (which is how P2HD works) it's gone forever. If your computer crashes or your editor messes up something, it's gone.

Generally prosumer cams don't record a true 1080p HD image. As far as I know only the Sony EX1 and EX3 do that and they're way out of your price range, even used. The Canon 5D Mark II and 7D record true 1080p HD. The models you listed (XH-A1, HVX200, and HPX170) record a 1080i image but when you bring it into whatever editing system you use it can be converted to a progressive image and even its lower resolutions (720p) are really high quality and don't really present a noticeable image unless you're a shutter bug or watching it on your super huge HDTV.

The "good in low light" thing is something everyone always specifies as something they want but its such a broad thing to ask for in a camera. Without really going into specifics, all 1/3 sized chips (which is most prosumer cams like the ones you listed) do moderately well in low light because they're very sensitive. Now, that doesn't mean that any of them can shoot in the dark without having some substantial grain after bumping up the gain or shooting in automatic mode. If you want a beautiful image at night, or in low light, you have to pick and choose your exposure levels in the frame - and that rule goes for all cameras. Some people say that some models are better in low light but in my professional opinion, the difference between models is negligible. If you're making movies you should always have adequate light, even if that means mounting an OLED on your camera (like I have to do when I shoot wedding receptions).

I hope this answers some of your questions.
 
Just to clarify a bit, the A1 does shoot 24f, which is 24p by another name to avoid trademark infringement. There is no pulldown removal with the A1. However, as with all HDV cameras it isn't full raster 1920. Instead, its 1440x1080 with a 1.33 pixel aspect ratio. However the sensor is also 1440 so there is no up rez as with certain other cameras.

In comparison most of the Panni's are 960x520 sensors with an uprezed image. Still a nice image.

The 7D records a 1080p file, but way the image is created it has lower resolution than the other cameras and is prone to moire and aliasing artifacts. However, it beats them all in DOF control, changable lenses and low light usage.

I have both and they're both great cameras, but completely different tools for different reasons. If I had to have only one I'd get the A1. You can control the DOF somewhat with the long 20x zoom and fast lens, if you have enough room to back up. You aren't going to improve the resolution of the 7D.
 
Thanks so far.

From what I understand, I should probably stick with the XH-A1 over the 7D which has full 1080p, full sensor, but has aliasing problems? - Or any other camera in its price range.

As for the dof, its not the greatest. There is a bit, but not as much as I was hoping. I was considering the Redrock M2, but with my budget and other expenses, it wont be so soon.
 
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Duke M. said:
Just to clarify a bit, the A1 does shoot 24f, which is 24p by another name to avoid trademark infringement. There is no pulldown removal with the A1. However, as with all HDV cameras it isn't full raster 1920. Instead, its 1440x1080 with a 1.33 pixel aspect ratio. However the sensor is also 1440 so there is no up rez as with certain other cameras.

In comparison most of the Panni's are 960x520 sensors with an uprezed image. Still a nice image.

The 7D records a 1080p file, but way the image is created it has lower resolution than the other cameras and is prone to moire and aliasing artifacts. However, it beats them all in DOF control, changable lenses and low light usage.

I have both and they're both great cameras, but completely different tools for different reasons. If I had to have only one I'd get the A1. You can control the DOF somewhat with the long 20x zoom and fast lens, if you have enough room to back up. You aren't going to improve the resolution of the 7D.
Click to expand...


I know this is not controlling resolution but it seems to me with color correction you are essentially doing the same job




The 7d does not have a full frame sensor thats the 5d i believe the 7d has an ASPC(?) and is very close to 35 mm film camera

the 5d full sensor is actually bigger than a Red One (just for an idea) but it wont be as good for video of course
 
Sensor Chart Here

this link is from reduser.net but it has a really cool sensor chart that will give you a good idea of what is what

these are approx.

ok 7d is 22 x 14 mm

full frame is 36 x 24 mm

35 mm film 22 x 12 (varies)

Red One 24 x 13
 
ChipG said:
Here ya go man: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=194297

It's a fair deal on an A1 and you'll have $250 left over for an extra battery or filter.
Click to expand...

Thanks.

And, well, Im from Canada, the currency is different. I was saying 2000usd but, was not expecting to find one at this price so soon. At this price I was hoping to get it in late Dec.-mid Jan. That $250 will not do much as that's what I would need to get for the time I was looking for, so this is perfect. But, since its cheaper, and I have the amount, I might as well before the offer is taken.
 
Because of the long zoom the XH-A1 will actually have similar DOF control as the Scarlet up until about 3/4
of the way zoomed in, and at the far end will have better DOF control (according to the tables Barry
posted and assuming the specs on the Scarlet don't change.)

In the example below the bucket is across the room, about 20', from the camera, and the peanut butter
jar is just a few feet behind it. That's about as much DOF control as you'll need in a drama or romance,
and with the preset used gives nice vibrant and rich colors.

Most people don't realize how good the A1 can be. Shoot every day until you REALLY learn the camera.
You should also know that the A1 has a Canon L lens (their top of the line) thats 32.5-650mm equivalent
and f1.6-3.5.

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