MXF vs. MOV

Cees Mutsaers

Cees Mutsaers

Veteran
I have a question considering backing-up content. If you export from your P2 card to HDD you get MXF files on your HDD. After transfering these to FCP they turn up as mov files in the folder "capture scratch". I understood that during transfer the MXF files are converted to "Apple Prores 422" (HQ?) and wrapped into a mov file. Does this mean that there is quality loss going from MXF and the mov file?? So it is better to backup the original MXF files than the MOV files ??
 
Cees Mutsaers said:
I have a question considering backing-up content. If you export from your P2 card to HDD you get MXF files on your HDD. After transfering these to FCP they turn up as mov files in the folder "capture scratch". I understood that during transfer the MXF files are converted to "Apple Prores 422" (HQ?) and wrapped into a mov file. Does this mean that there is quality loss going from MXF and the mov file?? So it is better to backup the original MXF files than the MOV files ??
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No quality loss as the files are just re-wrapped in the same format so quick time and final cut pro can read them. There is no transcoding or conversion and that is why it is quite a quick process.

Personally I use an intemediate USB hard drive as my P2 copy from the cards and that then is used to feed into FCP, it then stays on the shelf as a back-up until I am happy that it is no longer required. This sia also useful on location as I can dump the days rushes to the USB drive and re-name as required, I then leave the FCP to transfer overnight to a firewire 800 drive ready for edit.

As for back-up the MXF and pro res HQ MOV files will be indentical quality so you can back up either.
 
Hi Gary,

Thanks for the fast reply. I just bought a 2TB Lacie HDD which I put in raid 1 (so that leaves 1 TB). I wanted to use it as backup for the rough source material. I export always from my HPX300 to a G-technology mini HDD (320 GB) and than transfer it to FCP. So I was wondering what is the best workflow to back-up the rough MXF or MOV clips. If I understand you correctly the MOV files are still MXF just with a MOV jacket around it and thus there is no quality loss, right? So I can just backup these mov files. Is there any reason/advantage to backup the initial MXF files in stead of these move files? I think I will not backup the total video after postproduction since that can easily be generated again in any formst you want if you have the source files and the fcp project file, so that saves HDD space.

GaryNattrass said:
No quality loss as the files are just re-wrapped in the same format so quick time and final cut pro can read them. There is no transcoding or conversion and that is why it is quite a quick process.

Personally I use an intemediate USB hard drive as my P2 copy from the cards and that then is used to feed into FCP, it then stays on the shelf as a back-up until I am happy that it is no longer required. This sia also useful on location as I can dump the days rushes to the USB drive and re-name as required, I then leave the FCP to transfer overnight to a firewire 800 drive ready for edit.

As for back-up the MXF and pro res HQ MOV files will be indentical quality so you can back up either.
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I always consider the MOV file as my positive and the MXF files are my negatives....

I never toss out my negatives.. be it film... stills .. or now MFX... it's just my way of thinking...

I've amassed about 15 P2 Drives ( external hard drives I call P2 Drives) and about 35 Working Hard Drives... I catalogue the Drives using Disk Catalogue Maker... so in theory I have 2 X of anything I have done with P2 over the past 4 years... archived...

When I downloaded my first P2 card I put in a folder called D_001 ... I've kept that naming convention going from the beginning.... I'm up to D_817... makes for easy database...

I must admit I'm not a huge fan of massive hard drives for my P2 hard drive backup's.... just more to lose if something goes wrong... I like the 500GB or 640GB drives ... working drive's are as big as I can get based on price...

I edit all my footage locally on my Mac Pro.. that is whole project is on a hard drive internally in my system... once I'm finished with the job I dump the whole project to a Working Hard drive for storage... I rarely delete anything... so If the client comes back to me in 2 years the entire project can load in an instant....

Cheers

LeZ

PS... I just got a call from a client from a job back in 2007... they want to update a TVC going to air in New Zealand.... while I was talking on the phone I located the material through Disk Catalogue Maker... and was able to advise the client on the spot what was available in the archive....
 
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I agree with the guys and that is what I do too, the P2 on the USB drive is the back-up and the MOV is the edit files.

I Lez'es method and as USB drives are fairly low cost it makes sense to build up an archive for your clients and for peace of mind.

I use 160gb 2.5" mobile USB powered drives made by Hitachi but feel confident now to go to 320 or 500gb drives.

I also like going straight from the camera as it can verify the data to the USB drives and once it is in FCP I feel confident that I can re-use the P2 cards as the meida is in two places.
 
But do you save the mov files which you use to edit also or you just backup the MXF files and when you need to make changes in the FCP project you just log and transfer these original MXF files again.
I want to prevent to backup the mov and the mxf files because it only costs HDD space or do you recommend to to this?

Log and transfer strait from the cam into FCP does it work the same way as transfering it to an external HDD?

GaryNattrass said:
I agree with the guys and that is what I do too, the P2 on the USB drive is the back-up and the MOV is the edit files.

I Lez'es method and as USB drives are fairly low cost it makes sense to build up an archive for your clients and for peace of mind.

I use 160gb 2.5" mobile USB powered drives made by Hitachi but feel confident now to go to 320 or 500gb drives.

I also like going straight from the camera as it can verify the data to the USB drives and once it is in FCP I feel confident that I can re-use the P2 cards as the meida is in two places.
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.MOV files tend to be for quicktime based systems such as FCP.

Avid and others can read the MXF direct although they still need to read the contents of the disk in total and this takes about the same time as FCP re-wrapping.

I keep the MXF USB drive files as back-up and have the FCP MOV files on my raid drive until the edited material is delivered and the client is happy or I need the space.

Log and transfer straight from the camera is the same as going from a HDD that has the MXF files dumped from the P2 card although if you have a firewire 800 HDD drive it will be quicker into FCP than the USB.
 
I reckon it's cheaper in the long run to keep everything.... at $100AU per Terabyte.. it's cheaper for me to keep the entire project than spending the time reloading from the MXF's...

If a job takes up 300GB that's about $30 in hard drive space... seems cheap to me...

Cheers
 
One thing I do with clients now is tell them to provide me with their own 500gb or 1tb drive and then hand all the media over at the end of the job, saves me buying them and it gives them the freedom to do what they want with it.

It's their media anyway and it becomes their responsibility in the future not mine.
 
For the past 3 1/2 years we have been shooting DVCProHD onto P2 cards. For that entire period I have used a MacBook Pro a DuelAdapter and a series of 160GB USB drives from Acomdata. We write all the raw media files to 2 drives. These are your masters and should be treated as such. When we return from a shoot I copy one set of the master files to a series of desktop FW drives. I then clear one set of my road drives and shelve the other one as a permanent backup. I then ingest the footage from my desktop drives. Those .MOV files are captured to a Caldigit raid set up in RAID 5. After a project is complete all the clips that where not used are thrown out as they can be recaptured very easily as I still have the originals. Treat the .MXF files as masters. You never know when you may need to go back for some reason.

Al
 
'It's their media anyway and it becomes their responsibility in the future not mine.'

I generally regard the finish product as what the client has paid for... not all the footage that required to make the product.. that footage is generally mine...

I hold all the masters and they need to come back to me to make updates etc...

Cheers
 
That is my opinion as well :-)))
Ok guys thanks for your input. I bought an external raid 1 HDD and will save the raw MXF files as well as the MOV files. Once the finished project is delivered to the client I will delete it from my drive since I still have the MXF, MOV files and fcp project file.


Lez said:
'
I generally regard the finish product as what the client has paid for... not all the footage that required to make the product.. that footage is generally mine...

I hold all the masters and they need to come back to me to make updates etc...

Cheers
Click to expand...
 
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