Mutli Cam shoot with one camera operator need advice

[offbeatbryce]

The internet is full of " fake news ". I expect they are as confused as you are about the true frame rate in NTSC. I am sure they are making the point that it is progressive rather than interlace. ( ie 60P and not 60i ) A bit like saying full HD meaning 1920x1080 rather than 1280x720. PC can play back various frame rates without the issues of NTSC compliance though even PC's need display refresh compliance.

What NLE do you use ? You of course now realize that the 29.97fps project is 60i interlaced. Has the smooth motion of tradition television and in my mind the best for sports action etc. I shoot all my video in 60i or 60p and edit on a 29.97fps ( 60i ) timeline. Makes it easier to go to Bluray or encode for DVD.

You aren't making sense. You just said above that it's 60i when it's 60p on my camera. If it was not true 60 frames everything would be blurry slowed down to 30 percent. THIS is not the case. IT's a fast action video of a soccer ball being kicked. I slowed down the soccer ball being kicked and the soccer ball slowed down to 40 percent is not Blurry. This would mean it's ture 60 frames a second not 29.97

 

[paulears]

Easy to get confused with frame rates, but 29.97 frames per second is two interlaced pictures per frame - as in fields, not frames - two fields= 1 frame in interlaced terminology. Well, of course not really 60, but slightly less! 60p is the number of complete frames per second. He is making sense - just annoying that the specification for video got amazingly complicated when we went digital. Thinking back, nobody ever talked about 525/625 line pictures as 262i or 312i.

 

[Ron Evans]

You aren't making sense. You just said above that it's 60i when it's 60p on my camera. If it was not true 60 frames everything would be blurry slowed down to 30 percent. THIS is not the case. IT's a fast action video of a soccer ball being kicked. I slowed down the soccer ball being kicked and the soccer ball slowed down to 40 percent is not Blurry. This would mean it's ture 60 frames a second not 29.97

Your XA25 camera that you slowed down is shooting 60P, or in NTSC that is 59.94fps even the XA10 can be slowed down in the same way, try it. Your are editing in a 29.97fps project. That is an interlaced, 60i project, still 60 images a sec they just happen to be fields and when played back on a modern TV will look no different to 60P. Play back the video from the XA10 and the XA25 on a modern TV. The TV will interpolate the missing fields for playback. On a PC the playback will show jaggies from the XA10 because most PC playback cannot adequately deinterlace. As I said before the image blur is dependent on the shutter speed of the original video. A fast shutter speed will give a sharp image what ever the frame rate. That is why for slow frame rates one does not want a fast shutter speed because the image will be too sharp and judder , hence the 180 angle rule. If you are shooting at 60P or 60i with shutter above 1/60 then the image will likely be sharp enough to slow right down to a still image. I shoot mainly at 1/60 and extract stills to print.

 

[offbeatbryce]

Your XA25 camera that you slowed down is shooting 60P, or in NTSC that is 59.94fps even the XA10 can be slowed down in the same way, try it. Your are editing in a 29.97fps project. That is an interlaced, 60i project, still 60 images a sec they just happen to be fields and when played back on a modern TV will look no different to 60P. Play back the video from the XA10 and the XA25 on a modern TV. The TV will interpolate the missing fields for playback. On a PC the playback will show jaggies from the XA10 because most PC playback cannot adequately deinterlace. As I said before the image blur is dependent on the shutter speed of the original video. A fast shutter speed will give a sharp image what ever the frame rate. That is why for slow frame rates one does not want a fast shutter speed because the image will be too sharp and judder , hence the 180 angle rule. If you are shooting at 60P or 60i with shutter above 1/60 then the image will likely be sharp enough to slow right down to a still image. I shoot mainly at 1/60 and extract stills to print.

then why is the 180 degree rule 1/60 shutter at 29.97?? I thought 60 frames was a different shutter?

 

[Ron Evans]

The 180 angle rule was intended to make sure the shutter speed was not too high for slow film frame rates . If the shutter speed is too fast the images are very sharp with less motion blur and then more prone to judder in the image playback. For 29.97P the angle rule applies. For 29.97 the interlace timecode, the sample ( exposure 60 fields a sec) rate is fast enough to not cause a problem of judder with shutter speeds above 1/60. If you have plenty of light then go faster. In fact shutter speeds above the 180 rule work for faster frame rates as judder is less of an issue as there is less motion between frames to induce judder on playback. If you look at the data code when your XA10 is running full auto outside in bright sunlight you may find the shutter has gone to 1/500 or more as a way of the camera allowing for the lens to be in the sweet spot. Standard practice for consumer cameras that do not have ND filters. Works for 60i or 60P not so good for 30P or 24P. In the theatre when light is low I always use 1/60 on all my cameras and they are a mix of 60i and 60P. I can then take advantage of the light gathering to save me having to use gain on the cameras too much. 1/60 still gives the motion blur as if I shot at 29.97P anyway and followed the angle rule. I always use fast frame rates so do not follow the angle rule at all. If there is lots of light I will increase the shutter speed a little to try and keep lens in sweet spot, but rarely if ever have gone to 1/120.