Musings on Detail Level

jeffyjones said:
Wait, the specs say that FCP does support 1080/24p.
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Not DVCPRO 24p. I have asked Jan about this and she said Apple cannot do the proper pulldown support with DVCPRO HD at 24p yet.

I have experimented with injesting 1080 24p and 24PA footage.
But it looks funky and even messing around with Cinema tools made it really wacky. I wish the 1080 support was as solid as the 720p support. I am going to try DV film and see if I can do anything with that. But as far as I see FCP does not have any presets for 1080 editing at 23.976, I have tried forcing the framerate but I have no idea what I have.
 
Thanks very much Barry. This is also what I have been finding about the detail level. With the OIS on which slightly can soften the image, I don't find the need to go minus on the detail level.
 
kidtexas said:
How does running high edge enhancement look when shooting HD downsized for SD/DVD? Presumably it's not bad, but just curious.
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Can't see why it would be a problem. It looks fine on the HD source, so downrezzing it would just blend it all together. Should be fine.
 
DP StrangeLove said:
How did the HVX compare in image quality to the JVC during your test?
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That's asking for a :violent5: to begin. Let me defer by saying it this way: of the 8 of us who saw the HVX, XLH1, Z1 and HD100 side-by-side all day doing tests, six of us bought the HVX.
 
R Gale said:
It was his opinion that shooting 1080 interlaced is much less desirable than shooting 720 progressive.
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I'd agree with that, sure. I'd *never* shoot interlaced for film out. I'm talking about 1080/24p, not 1080/60i. And I'm quite confident that 1080/24p would make for a better film transfer than 720/24p would.
 
I was playing with Raylight.
I can use that and import a 1080 24pA file.
Raylight removes the 2:3:3:2 pulldown and
you can edit (slowly) with either AE or Vegas.
I was doing some testing making WMV HD files
the 1080 mode is sharper and clearer, less noise.
If a software programmer in Austin TX can make this
work with his hundred dollar program.....
Why can't Apple do the same????
 
I have used cinema tools to sucsessfully extract the 23.98P material from HVX 1080 24P. It plays back fine on my HD-SDI monitor using a Decklink card.
 
Using FCP 5.0.4. It did take a little time to get the cadence right from the reverse telecine. You should be able to do even better from 24PA using cinema tools.
 
evinsky said:
Using FCP 5.0.4. It did take a little time to get the cadence right from the reverse telecine. You should be able to do even better from 24PA using cinema tools.
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We need a tutorial on that. Are you shooting 108024pA on the P2 card and then importing into FCP and then using Cinema Tools?

If you can make a 1080 24p file.
What settings do you use to edit in FCP with??

Thanks
 
Yes, I need some training on Cinema Tools. I have searched high & low about how to remove the pulldown from 1080 24pA clips. Plus isn't a 1080 24pA clip 2:3:3:2?? So just remove 3:2 won't work. Jan said it was not possible but I just did it in Raylight. How come Cinema Tools re-sizes the .mov? I cannot see where to keep it the same size. AGGGHHHHHH!!!!!
 
Set up an Timeline using the 1080i60 preset then go into the sequence settings and change the frame rate to 23.98. Save as a custom easy set up and then save the sequence. Take your 1080 DVCPRO clip and click on it holding down the control key. Highlight the "export to cinema tools" option an let go. Once in Cinema tools use the reverse telecine option to create a 23.98 1080P Clip that that can then be edited in the previously created timeline. You may need to use Grame Natress's free cadence detect plug-in to find the correct pull down removal scheme. Sometimes you can do it directly from FCP using the "Tools" menu item. But I haven't had that much luck at it correctly detecting the pulldown cadence.

Hope this helps.
 
Thanks, I will give that a try. After Effects seems to be able to detect the pull-down. I can click through and get only continous frames.
Good for effects sequences.
 
I give up, I followed your directions to a T, but to know avail.
I tried it with Cinema Tools open & closed. Do I need to create a database??
 
Found that cadance tool. It showed up as BB . Looks like that works.
Would this be standard for 1080 24pA clips or would you have to run that cadence checker on every file??
 
Barry_Green said:
I set coring to -2. Noise isn't an issue, really. Looks fine, just a tiny tad grainy. Coring would help mask some of that grain though.
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Barry, if you set coring to -2 and it looks just a tad grainy, why not set it to positive 2 to mask some of the grain?
 
Going positive can definitely mask some grain, but it also blurs a bit of the high frequency detail. It's your choice, and it's why the settings are there -- so you can pick and mix & match to get a picture that matches your preferences.

In playing around with the color settings I found that in general it seems like cinematrix should be the noisiest, but in certain colors at certain IRE levels, enriched was far noisier (primarily in the yellows). So -- get a good monitor, and check what your footage actually looks like. There aren't any absolute rules, just general guidelines. The only absolute is what does your final shot really look like.
 
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