C200: Moza Air 2

[Stills2HDConvert]

I got a Moza Air 2 yesterday.
When I put a 7.3# load on it it doesn't seem like it can really handle it.
When I try to autotune, it really doesn't work.
Nothing happens then the gimbal goes limp and the camera flops around.
Inception mode won't work because of the EVF on the C200.
Sometimes the motors just stop working and the camera flops around.
When it does work the motors seem to get hot.
On a solid surface and the legs out the motors vibrate all the time.
The motors vibrate all the time in use as well.
I'm thinking about sending it back, unless someone can suggest something I can do to get it to work better.
I don't the 9# rating on this thing is very realistic.
The C200 is reasonably balanced.
I've updated the firmware.

 

[ph2003]

These gimbal tend to do like the load is closer to max payload, especially put it at strange a angle.
You really need perfect balance closer to max payload. I wouldn't trust the official stated max load tho, have you tune the motor at max output? maybe it will help.

 

[Stills2HDConvert]

These gimbal tend to do like the load is closer to max payload, especially put it at strange a angle.
You really need perfect balance closer to max payload. I wouldn't trust the official stated max load tho, have you tune the motor at max output? maybe it will help.

Setting the motor power to ultra heavy seems to have made a difference.
I used the check level function to fine tune the balance.
It's working a little better now.
Thanks.

 

[puredrifting]

Seems crazy to try to fly a camera as big and as heavy as the C200 on a one-handed gimbal. Let us know how it works in the real world, how long you can hold before getting the shakes, how your back and shoulder muscles hold up. Post some footage if you have time
it would be interesting to see how this actually performs.

 

[Stills2HDConvert]

Seems crazy to try to fly a camera as big and as heavy as the C200 on a one-handed gimbal. Let us know how it works in the real world, how long you can hold before getting the shakes, how your back and shoulder muscles hold up. Post some footage if you have time
it would be interesting to see how this actually performs.

puredrifting, I think you're setting me up here. Not sure I'm going to take the bait.
I'm not saying that in a provocative way.
I know your opinions on gimals and cameras like the C200 from your posts from months ago.
Knowing your opinions I think you sort of answered your questions within your questions.
Everyone has their opinion. I respect yours, but don't always agree.
I would agree that the gimbal and camera are heavy as heck. There is no doubt about that.
I do have a harness that I may be able to use to actually insert the base into so that the weight of the unit is actually on my shoulders, not my hands.
It's actually a 2 handed gimbal, but it really doesn't matter. Your point has always been that you aren't fond of footage from gimbals versus other stabilization methods.
I'm not sure I'm going to keep it anyway.
I'm going to call them and if it doesn't settle down more, RMA it.

 

[indiawilds]

With tech advancements the gimbals are becoming better or atleast supposed to become better. If you are able to get footage to your liking then please share. If someone finds a creative way of using heavy cameras in these gimbals then opinions can always change. We are here to learn from your experience.

puredrifting, I think you're setting me up here. Not sure I'm going to take the bait.
I'm not saying that in a provocative way.
I know your opinions on gimals and cameras like the C200 from your posts from months ago.
Knowing your opinions I think you sort of answered your questions within your questions.
Everyone has their opinion. I respect yours, but don't always agree.
I would agree that the gimbal and camera are heavy as heck. There is no doubt about that.
I do have a harness that I may be able to use to actually insert the base into so that the weight of the unit is actually on my shoulders, not my hands.
It's actually a 2 handed gimbal, but it really doesn't matter. Your point has always been that you aren't fond of footage from gimbals versus other stabilization methods.
I'm not sure I'm going to keep it anyway.
I'm going to call them and if it doesn't settle down more, RMA it.

 

[puredrifting]

puredrifting, I think you're setting me up here. Not sure I'm going to take the bait.
I'm not saying that in a provocative way.
I know your opinions on gimals and cameras like the C200 from your posts from months ago.
Knowing your opinions I think you sort of answered your questions within your questions.
Everyone has their opinion. I respect yours, but don't always agree.
I would agree that the gimbal and camera are heavy as heck. There is no doubt about that.
I do have a harness that I may be able to use to actually insert the base into so that the weight of the unit is actually on my shoulders, not my hands.
It's actually a 2 handed gimbal, but it really doesn't matter. Your point has always been that you aren't fond of footage from gimbals versus other stabilization methods.
I'm not sure I'm going to keep it anyway.
I'm going to call them and if it doesn't settle down more, RMA it.

Dude, you're being paranoid. I'm not trying to set you up, I am genuinely interested in how it works out for you. I may not like gimbals but I just gave away my first gen Crane and bought a Crane 2. I am like Eric and agree that the motion signature is kind of is robotic and I am seeing that with my Crane 2, even after tweaking the settings but the bottom line is if we want to move our cameras around freely, you pretty much are limited to handheld (which I generally like but it sucks for walking shots), Steadicam or Steadicam-like devices (very cool but take major skills and practice to get good results) or gimbal. I have a gimbal, use a gimbal and ***** about the look of gimbals. I think I could even mount my C200 on my Crane 2 but I never will since I bought the Fujifilm XT-3, no need. But I was and am genuinely curious about your results, how long you can use it, what the footage looks like. I'm not so close minded as I might appear to be, I do change my mind and plenty of users here have convinced me to try and do shots I never would have.

I dislike the overuse of the roaming camera, it's a really bad aesthetic but when I am shooting documentary and am following a subject solo and the subject is moving from their car to a location and it's part of the story, I can't put my camera on sticks and ask them to repeat action or wait for me to grab my cam and tripod and run ahead, I have to hop out of their car and follow them and the gimbal is obviously the best way to get that shot. So I use the best tool available.

I am also curious about the Moza Air as I have only had Cranes and tried the Ronin-S and the Ronin-M.

 

[djangosan]

Stills2HDConvert,
Any update on how well this is working out for you? Were you able to resolve any of the bugs/load issues?

 

[Stills2HDConvert]

Stills2HDConvert,
Any update on how well this is working out for you? Were you able to resolve any of the bugs/load issues?

I returned it.
Their tech support number (in Hawaii) never answered the phone and the voice mail was always full.
Their tech support emails were barely understandable. It was obvious their first language wasn't English.
They provided no information on what to do.
I had the latest firmware and the motors set to high.
With the viewfinder I wasn't able to go into inception mode (I don't have a B).
I returned it and am waiting on a refund.
If someone gets one and figures it out, I'd be interested in giving it another shot.
I was planning to buy a vest to go with it, but for now it's all on hold.

 

[Josh Bass]

So there’s just like...not any good cheap(ish) solution to gimbals for the c-series cams, huh? I had friends who used to use the original ronin but even that looked like a huge pain.

 

[jcs]

Looks like the stripped C200 weighs around 3.2lbs, similar to the 1DX II with battery at 3.37lbs? I recently picked up the Moza Air 2 and with a basic (not even close to ideal) balance + auto tune with the 24-105 F4L, it worked pretty well with the 1DX II. It got the jiggles at high angles, figured that was due to the marginal balance and/or something that would improve by manually choosing higher motor torque (80D with 18-135 Nano had zero issues). This is a really nice gimbal and I already like it better than the Ronin-M, especially with the ability to replace batteries with any desired brand (vs. the proprietary DJI batteries which frequently die (at $89 a pop) with no third party options).

For the C200 it would seem like you'd want to mount the viewfinder on the handle (might require buying a longer cable?). For inception mode you'd remove the cable from the camera (not really going to be able to see anything with that shot anyway, right?).

 

[Stills2HDConvert]

Looks like the stripped C200 weighs around 3.2lbs, similar to the 1DX II with battery at 3.37lbs? I recently picked up the Moza Air 2 and with a basic (not even close to ideal) balance + auto tune with the 24-105 F4L, it worked pretty well with the 1DX II. It got the jiggles at high angles, figured that was due to the marginal balance and/or something that would improve by manually choosing higher motor torque (80D with 18-135 Nano had zero issues). This is a really nice gimbal and I already like it better than the Ronin-M, especially with the ability to replace batteries with any desired brand (vs. the proprietary DJI batteries which frequently die (at $89 a pop) with no third party options).

For the C200 it would seem like you'd want to mount the viewfinder on the handle (might require buying a longer cable?). For inception mode you'd remove the cable from the camera (not really going to be able to see anything with that shot anyway, right?).

Mine wouldn't autotune.
My 24-105 and C200 was 7.3#
It's supposed to be good for 9.25#.
It was okish at first but was worthless after I updated the firmware.
Have you updated the firmware on yours?
I don't use the LCD.
I use my phone (which isn't mounted on the camera).
So no cable going to the display.
Like I said in my previous post I had the motors turned all the way up.
I reported all this to Moza and they gave me nothing to try to resolve the problem.
It would hold the camera steady for about 5 seconds then go limp.

 

[jcs]

Mine wouldn't autotune.
My 24-105 and C200 was 7.3#
It's supposed to be good for 9.25#.
It was okish at first but was worthless after I updated the firmware.
Have you updated the firmware on yours?
I don't use the LCD.
I use my phone (which isn't mounted on the camera).
So no cable going to the display.
Like I said in my previous post I had the motors turned all the way up.
I reported all this to Moza and they gave me nothing to try to resolve the problem.
It would hold the camera steady for about 5 seconds then go limp.

I went to check the firmware, and the batteries died after a few days of non-use (showed 3/4 charge or so after initial testing). Looks like batteries must be removed when not in use (that's a strike against the electronic design). Haven't updated the firmware or installed the Moza app. Will check firmware after batteries charge.

1DX II with battery, 24-105 F4L (original), Tiffen vND, and CFAST card = 5.0lbs.

I was able to get the stripped C300 II (with extension rods) to work on the Ronin-M (appeared to be near the limit).

Not responding at all for tech support is a valid reason for a prompt return.

EDIT: Firmware is 4.11. Checked online- latest is 4.12, adds support for Nikon cameras.

I put the 80D back on the gimbal and it buzzed, even after autotuning. Had to go into settings and select Light camera from Heavy (previously used the 1DX II). Autotune does not select camera weight- did you select Heavy for camera, including after firmware update (which may have cleared that setting)?

Had charged batteries for a few hours; after installing them gimbal showed 100% charged. After this test, powered off gimbal, then a few minutes later tried to power it back on- nothing. Removed & reinstalled batteries and it powered back up and had lost changes from last use- was buzzing again. After setting power back to Light camera, it shut down, guess batteries were depleted. Will let charge overnight and install latest firmware tomorrow.

 

[jcs]

Charged batteries overnight. Noticed status lights go from red to green before batteries are fully charged. Will test full discharge/use cycle and see how they work. 4 replacement batteries are around $40 (or about $19 if shipped from China on Amazon). Moza brand via BH are $50.

Installed Moza Master iOS app, updated to firmware 4.12 (app reported FW update didn't complete- gimbal showed it did; minor bug), set camera weight, autotuned, and tested various functions, including hooking up the USB cable to the camera for remote control. All worked really well. Using the iOS app and mounting the gimbal on a tripod, it's possible to get really smooth pan/tilt/roll shots (can also use the gimbal joystick). Will report back after doing a real shoot.

 

[jcs]

Brought gimbal to Venice beach to test with model friend and it was dead (full night charge, tested a few hours before shoot, showing fully charged batteries). Will contact tech support before returning it.

 

[puredrifting]

Brought gimbal to Venice beach to test with model friend and it was dead (full night charge, tested a few hours before shoot, showing fully charged batteries). Will contact tech support before returning it.

I have to be honest, the only single hand gimbals I recommend to friends and colleagues are Zhiyun and DJI. All of the other brands seem to have overall questionable reliability and user experiences as reported all over the Internet and from colleagues I have had try them. CAME TV, Feiyu and now Moza? Pass.

 

[jcs]

I have to be honest, the only single hand gimbals I recommend to friends and colleagues are Zhiyun and DJI. All of the other brands seem to have overall questionable reliability and user experiences as reported all over the Internet and from colleagues I have had try them. CAME TV, Feiyu and now Moza? Pass.

Google "DJI batteries died"- failure rate is very high. Both my Ronin-M batteries died. Only used for one shoot! Seems like more of a failure of the "smart" electronics than the LiPo battery itself. Common theory is the battery goes into hibernation mode never to return (tried all the voodoo tricks suggested to bring them back- didn't work). Have to purchase another $89 battery just so I can sell it.

When I got home I tested the batteries with a multimeter: all registered around 4.12v (got 1.45v for 1.2v AA NiMH so perhaps meter is a little high (Amprobe digital)). After installing and reinstalling the batteries a few times (in the proper direction), it fired up, then shut off after a few seconds. Put batteries back in charger and charger shows red- will measure fully charged voltage for curiosity- going to return this guy. It's a shame because it's a really cool design and works really, really well. While the Ronin-M works fine for getting stable footage, the Moza Air 2 is far more usable, compact, and versatile.

 

[puredrifting]

Google "DJI batteries died"- failure rate is very high. Both my Ronin-M batteries died. Only used for one shoot! Seems like more of a failure of the "smart" electronics than the LiPo battery itself. Common theory is the battery goes into hibernation mode never to return (tried all the voodoo tricks suggested to bring them back- didn't work). Have to purchase another $89 battery just so I can sell it.

When I got home I tested the batteries with a multimeter: all registered around 4.12v (got 1.45v for 1.2v AA NiMH so perhaps meter is a little high (Amprobe digital)). After installing and reinstalling the batteries a few times (in the proper direction), it fired up, then shut off after a few seconds. Put batteries back in charger and charger shows red- will measure fully charged voltage for curiosity- going to return this guy. It's a shame because it's a really cool design and works really, really well. While the Ronin-M works fine for getting stable footage, the Moza Air 2 is far more usable, compact, and versatile.

Both DJi and Zhiyun have terrible customer service, I've tried to deal with both but from what I have experienced, if you buy any of these Chinese brands, you are basically on your own. My Aputure Lightstorm LS-1S stripped out the side plate/yoke and it has taken me two months to get a replacement plate from China and twice they have sent me the wrong, shorter tie down knobs, the ones on the LS-1S are longer and spring loaded and they keep sending me the shorter ones for the 120 DII, they don't have these longer ones listed on their AliExpress website and even after multiple emails with "Susie" (I love when Chinese adopt Anglo names), she said she would have the warehouse ship me the right ones, but all that came were the plastic handles, not the actual screws that go into the side plate, I am a bit out of sorts. Luckily the old plate stripped out and they shipped me the new plate and the old tie down knob screw still has enough threads to work.

Something to keep in mind when you buy all of this wonderful, cheap, high value Chinese gear. Sometimes locally made stuff like Kino costs more, but if my Kino product or Wooden Camera or Sigma or Zacuto product breaks, I can at least get it fixed. Chinese stuff, not so much.

 

[jcs]

Both DJi and Zhiyun have terrible customer service, I've tried to deal with both but from what I have experienced, if you buy any of these Chinese brands, you are basically on your own. My Aputure Lightstorm LS-1S stripped out the side plate/yoke and it has taken me two months to get a replacement plate from China and twice they have sent me the wrong, shorter tie down knobs, the ones on the LS-1S are longer and spring loaded and they keep sending me the shorter ones for the 120 DII, they don't have these longer ones listed on their AliExpress website and even after multiple emails with "Susie" (I love when Chinese adopt Anglo names), she said she would have the warehouse ship me the right ones, but all that came were the plastic handles, not the actual screws that go into the side plate, I am a bit out of sorts. Luckily the old plate stripped out and they shipped me the new plate and the old tie down knob screw still has enough threads to work.

Something to keep in mind when you buy all of this wonderful, cheap, high value Chinese gear. Sometimes locally made stuff like Kino costs more, but if my Kino product or Wooden Camera or Sigma or Zacuto product breaks, I can at least get it fixed. Chinese stuff, not so much.

Fully charged the batteries are getting a high of 4.20v. Not powering on at 4.11v appears to be a hardware issue, as the nominal voltage is supposed to be 3.6v.

Going to try updating the firmware from a computer and see if it can complete without error, in the event the issue is somehow firmware related.

Doesn't it appear that all the low-cost gimbals have the same issue: either they work great, or they don't, and if they don't, tech support is lacking? From my DJI and Moza experience, the issues appear to be hardware/firmware vs. batteries, even though battery related. That sounds like quality control and/or analog design issues. Analog circuit design is an order of magnitude harder than digital; folks that can design well for that space are rare (A good friend owns a small company creating analog power converters. He consults with billion+ dollar companies to solve problems they cannot).

Too bad Freefly doesn't make a handheld gimbals beyond phones! Happy to pay more for quality + reliability.

 

[jcs]

Had to upgrade laptop to Mojave to run the Moza app. The USB driver wouldn't install due to a permission issue, which wasn't solved until I rebooted: apparently the OSX upgrade to Mojave needed to do a bit more after another reboot.
Successfully upgraded the firmware to 4.12, then recalibrated the accelerometer and gyros, per the app's recommendation (this is the opposite suggested by the mobile app).

The desktop app shows battery power in %, and so far after over an hour, still shows 100%. Perhaps it's getting USB power while plugged in. Will unplug from USB in a bit and see how long it lasts on battery only.

There's minor bugs and design issues here and there, though overall prefer the design and usability over DJI products. Thus the extra effort to see it can be made to work properly before returning it.

EDIT: Note there are no NVidia Mojave drivers (googling sounds like there might not be any, ever), so no CUDA for PP CC etc. However, OpenCL and Metal (probably the best option) worked fine+fast in PP CC.