FS7: More Cards -OR- External Recorder

D

digitalinnovations

Well-known member
I'm coming up on some long-form interviews (8-10 hour days) that I want to shoot UHD in 10bit so my dilemma is either spend a bundle on XQD cards or on an external recorder so I can use the cheaper SSD media. Offloading probably won't be viable option. Any thoughts or opinions on external recorders?
 
Last edited:
8-10 hours you're looking at 16-20 64GB or 8-10 128GB ones. Take a look at lexars new 128GB cards. Calculate your costs accordingly.
 
I went through this dilema when I first purchased the camera since I typically shoot lots of footage. I opted for more xqd cards. It was less about price and more about how I wanted to use the camera in the future. I wanted to keep my rig lighter and didn't have a need for an additional monitor. If I ever need a better monitor, the need to record raw or SSD for some reason then I'll rent an external recorder.
 
Just remember that ProRes HQ in UHD is going to be much more data than the internal UHD XAVC-I. If these are locked off interviews the SSD media for a Shogun/Odyssey may be cheaper but the long term storage costs are gonna be quite a bit more.
 
Good thoughts all around. The thought of renting either the cards or a recorder hadn't really occurred to me (no rental houses nearby so I don't tend to rent too often). But I should have plenty of upfront time for scheduling / shipping on this project.

I have also been considering the fact that the onboard XAVC is more efficient in terms of storage space and (to me at least) it seems to be robust enough to push around in post. Especially coming from Canon's onboard codecs.
 
i use lensrentals.com often for glass and the occasional external recorder. they have XQD cards as well. they ship quickly & provide return labels.

i personally would never record to an external recorder without an internal backup. too risky.
 
For reference, 1TB of memory will yield about 170 minutes of Apple ProRes 422(HQ) in UHD at 24p (you didn't specify frame rate). So 3TB of SSDs is enough to cover your shooting day, with an extra 256G in case you run a bit long. The Odyssey7Q+ costs $2295 to purchase and comes with a 256G SSD included. Samsung 850 EVO 1TB SSDs are currently selling for $343.24 at B&H, so figure that for about $3400 you'd be all set. I'll let you run the cost of XQD cards yourself.
 
digitalinnovations said:
I have also been considering the fact that the onboard XAVC is more efficient in terms of storage space and (to me at least) it seems to be robust enough to push around in post. Especially coming from Canon's onboard codecs.
Click to expand...

If you are coming from C300 it's an absolutely huge difference. I came from Canon too. Haven't tried it much back to back with my FS7 -> Shogun but I'd be surprised if there was a big visual difference. XAVC-I is amazingly robust... coloring it brings a smile to my face, even looking 1:1 on a reference monitor.

Mitch Gross said:
For reference, 1TB of memory will yield about 170 minutes of Apple ProRes 422(HQ) in UHD at 24p (you didn't specify frame rate). So 3TB of SSDs is enough to cover your shooting day, with an extra 256G in case you run a bit long. The Odyssey7Q+ costs $2295 to purchase and comes with a 256G SSD included. Samsung 850 EVO 1TB SSDs are currently selling for $343.24 at B&H, so figure that for about $3400 you'd be all set. I'll let you run the cost of XQD cards yourself.
Click to expand...

Using XAVC-I gets you UHD 24p at 30mins for a 64GB card. You can get 8 cards and shoot 240 minutes, and if you buy Lexar 1333 XQD I think they are about $130/card. So about $1000 in reusable media - but only shooting about 500-600GB per day.

Don't get me wrong, Shogun/Odyssey has lots of other benefits but personally I have a hard time swallowing 3TB/day. Also data rates at that point will cause bandwidth issues in post unless you are on a pretty modern RAID.
 
Let's be fair with the numbers here. I quoted numbers to get more than twice the record time you did at the same price for the memory. Yes the recorder itself is an additional cost as is additional memory needs for post storage, but lets compare apples to apples. By your numbers, it would take about 18 cards to equal the record time I presented. At $130/card that's $2340.
 
I don't want to come off sounding like a fan-boy... but the Odyssey7Q+ strikes me as one of the most seriously useful products in its function class.

If the costs for both of your choices here are even remotely similar, then getting a Odyssey7Q+ seems more like an overall expansion of your tools and capabilities rather than just storage.
 
Interview does not sound like a dramatic setup where you will have to squeeze your images in post afterwards. Did you consider shooting XAVC-L? It's not toxic and I did not find it significant different to XAVC-I unless you stress the footage in post.
 
Use the camera as you wish to use it - price the job to cover that use.

personally I'd go with the cards - or in fact ideally both recorder and cards

you are also going to have to consider DIt all this data without being up all night - using Ssd as "tape" might help
 
Last edited:
Can someone put it in simple numbers please?

10 Hours worth of XQD media at UHD XAVC-I = ? USD
10 Hours worth of SSD media at UHD ProRes HQ = ? USD

-Atomos Assassin: 1300$ (HDMI 10bit 4:2:2 24p UHD supported)
-Atomos Shogun: 2000$
-Odyssey Q7+: 2300$

Then the OP could know what exactly:

x$ = to get 10 hours of XQDs
z$ = to get 10 hours of SSDs + Recorder/monitor.
 
In the real world DIt cost has to be considered maybe over cost of hardware or rental - either the actual dollars cost of a runner to do downloading or the pain of staying up all night doing it yourself when you have shot all day and need to shoot all day tomorrow

also the cost of a failed drive or cable ruining some shots - certainly I feel that would be a risk with a cheap recorder and cheap media

incidentally that runner would mean one only needs 3 cards
 
Last edited:
I take my Macbook Pro with a chinese thunderbolt 2 enclosure 2x SSD in raid1 along and dump camera archives off in breaks or at the end of the day. I have 2x128 GB cards which sees me through most things anyway. But I like to have the morning and afternoon's shoot onto backed up media asap.

Making a camera archive in FCPX through USB3 doesn't take too long and with 2 cards it's easy to alternate between shoot n dump if needed and no spinning media means it all happens silently close at hand.
 
Mitch Gross said:
Let's be fair with the numbers here. I quoted numbers to get more than twice the record time you did at the same price for the memory. Yes the recorder itself is an additional cost as is additional memory needs for post storage, but lets compare apples to apples. By your numbers, it would take about 18 cards to equal the record time I presented. At $130/card that's $2340.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I was going off my head and misread your post. I'm not being disingenuous, I don't have a dog in this fight just sharing my experience. I own a Shogun too like I said. Anyone serious about this should do the math themselves. I agree that an external solution has additional benefits and said that before, but it's not a substitution for internal recording in my experience.

DIT is probably the best solution but I'm pretty reticent to format shot cards without personally verifying the media. Been burned on that before.
 
Ebrahim Saadawi said:
Can someone put it in simple numbers please?

10 Hours worth of XQD media at UHD XAVC-I = ? USD
10 Hours worth of SSD media at UHD ProRes HQ = ? USD

-Atomos Assassin: 1300$ (HDMI 10bit 4:2:2 24p UHD supported)
-Atomos Shogun: 2000$
-Odyssey Q7+: 2300$

Then the OP could know what exactly:

x$ = to get 10 hours of XQDs
z$ = to get 10 hours of SSDs + Recorder/monitor.
Click to expand...

I did exactly that. The times are approx. 10 hours because that's how they parse. XQD is $2340 and SSD is $1000.
 
I have found that regardless of circumstance one thing I cannot leave home without is a solid external monitor/recorder. Even if I'm not using it as a recorder the display/evf on just about any modern camera isn't gonna cut it. How any of you get by without one is beyond me.

Even thinking about changing/managing that many cards makes my head hurt. If I were in your shoes, I would rent/buy an external recorder/media combo and see first hand just how easy it makes your life :) Especially with interviews where you can place the camera, and run an sdi/hdmi cable to a more comfortable position to keep an eye on things.
 
Mitch Gross said:
Let's be fair with the numbers here. I quoted numbers to get more than twice the record time you did at the same price for the memory. Yes the recorder itself is an additional cost as is additional memory needs for post storage, but lets compare apples to apples. By your numbers, it would take about 18 cards to equal the record time I presented. At $130/card that's $2340.
Click to expand...

$2340 going straight to XQD = just over 1TB per day vs over 3TB per day with the Odyssey. That means if you're backing up in the field (hopefully to multiple hard drives), you're going to be spending triple the cost on backup drives with the Odyssey solution (extra cost + weight)... and all of this isn't factoring in the cost of the Odyssey itself, additional batteries, battery plates or D-tap cables, SDI cables, etc.

If you want to do 4K 60 or 1080p at higher frame rates... You'll need the $2000 XDCA unit and the $1000 RAW codec on the Odyssey. Or you could always do that to XQD cards if you have a few. Ultimately, you'll spend more on the Odyssey7Q setup, but you'll have a great 7" monitor and I do prefer the quality of ProRes files (more fine detail) but with that said, I use internal on XQD for a majority of my corporate interview/b-roll shoots. I save ProRes for commercials and shoots where we have a more outlined approach.

If you aren't going to have an on-going need for an external recorder or a plethora of XQD cards, I'd just rent XQD cards. You'll cover your interview times and use 1/3 of the hard drive space and have minimal impact on your bottom line.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top