FS7: Monitor LUT (under Video out in the menu) is greyed out

M

Mknobil

Member
I'm stumped (which is easy to do) ;-))
Monitor LUT (under Video out in the menu) is greyed out
Not in Cine mode
Fs7 without back
4K at 23.97
LUTS are loaded and put into camera memory via the File menu.
Sorry if too basic a question ..
Anybody?

Mark Knobil
Pittsburgh? Pittsburgh!
 
Mknobil said:
Oh. Thats kind of sad. Thanks.
Click to expand...

I don't understand why you would think "that's kind of sad"? It is the way the camera is designed to be used and prevents people from shooting themselves in the foot. The Custom mode is intended to be a WYSIWYG shooting mode and you have much more power over the look of the camera with the paint menus than a LUT could ever provide. If you turned on a LUT for monitoring purposes you'd be recording something other than what the camera is really recording, and that could be disastrous. And if you turned on a LUT with the intentions of recording it, you would not be getting the best performance from the camera.

The camera is designed to be used with one of these two options:

1) Use the Custom mode to record a nice WYSIWYG scene file that will require minimal grading.
or
2) Use the CINE EI mode to record S-LOG, and then grade in Resolve to taste.

Choose one workflow or the other, but don't try to mix them if you expect to get the best results.
 
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Doug,
I understand the original Cine EI concept, but in actual practice, people use the custom mode to get "in the ball park", and record with S Log 2 or 3 to preserve flexibility in post. Being able to export a monitor feed with a LUT to keep the client from panicking would be a good thing. No?
 
In hindsight one might wonder why it's not possible (and I personally think it should be), but barely anyone knew what a LUT was in 2014 (FS7) and 99% of cameras back then didn't allow you to load LUTs into them.

Company representatives' answers to questions wondering why some cameras maybe weren't updated to allow such options usually mention the hardware/processing isn't capable of doing it in certain modes (I couldn't confirm, IDK).
 
Mknobil said:
Doug,
I understand the original Cine EI concept, but in actual practice, people use the custom mode to get "in the ball park", and record with S Log 2 or 3 to preserve flexibility in post. Being able to export a monitor feed with a LUT to keep the client from panicking would be a good thing. No?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure you get the concept here. I certainly don't get what you want to do.
1-I don't know why anyone would work that way. (ball park in custom and shoot in slog)
2. The whole point of a LUT in Cine EI is so the picture looks normal. You can shoot in Slog and have a LUT in the EVF for yourself and in the monitor for your client. You'll drive yourself crazy and make huge mistakes if you operate the way you're suggesting. This is basic to using the FS7 .
 
Mknobil said:
Doug,
I understand the original Cine EI concept, but in actual practice, people use the custom mode to get "in the ball park", and record with S Log 2 or 3 to preserve flexibility in post. Being able to export a monitor feed with a LUT to keep the client from panicking would be a good thing. No?
Click to expand...

Mark - I'm not sure what you mean exactly by "preserve flexibility in post" by shooting in custom mode? Doug's answer above is right - in that shooting in CineEI mode allows for the most flexibility in post. Shooting in CineEI will also allow you to load custom (3D) LUT (in some circumstances) - to feed out to client monitor.
Are you shooting slog in custom because you want or need to white balance between one of the 3 WB's available in CineEI on the FS7? (That for me is a rare thing to need to do.). If so, you'll need something else (LUT box, recorder, monitor, etc) that can take the S log signal and apply a LUT to it to feed a client / director's monitor.

The LUT system on the FS7 - is my least favorite thing about the camera. But there are so many other things to like about the camera.
 
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To parade my ignorance further, I confess since having this camera from the time it was first available in the US, I have rarely explored the CineEI side of the camera. Every time I waded in to that side, it seemed like nothing but mysterious barriers. Barriers, like ganging the viewfinder and internal record together for applying LUTs..
Clearly it is time for me to take one of Doug's classes!!
Until then, I will continue turning up the contrast and chroma saturation on the client monitor. :)
 
Your choice, but really its pretty simple. Just go to Alister Chapman's Blog on Cine EI. You're making your life very difficult .BTW
You don't have to gang the viewfinder and internal record to look at LUTs.

In Cine EI if you're recording sLog then you set SDI-1 for no LUT and SDI-2 and the VF for the LUT . That's it. Or you set HDMI if that's how you monitor.
The tricky part is that there are 3 categories of LUT's , but use the one that makes 709 type A available. I forget what its called, but i think its the 2nd choice. Someone else can chime in here.
Then just expose as normal with the 709A LUT. You can get more complicated with white cards & other LUT's etc but I never bother.
(Doug will ream me out for not using a white card but i can take the heat - often its extremely inconvenient.)
 
LennyLevy said:
Your choice, but really its pretty simple. Just go to Alister Chapman's Blog on Cine EI. You're making your life very difficult .BTW
You don't have to gang the viewfinder and internal record to look at LUTs.

In Cine EI if you're recording sLog then you set SDI-1 for no LUT and SDI-2 and the VF for the LUT . That's it. Or you set HDMI if that's how you monitor.
The tricky part is that there are 3 categories of LUT's , but use the one that makes 709 type A available. I forget what its called, but i think its the 2nd choice. Someone else can chime in here.
Then just expose as normal with the 709A LUT. You can get more complicated with white cards & other LUT's etc but I never bother.
(Doug will ream me out for not using a white card but i can take the heat - often its extremely inconvenient.)
Click to expand...

Lenny - I do have to correct you... while I agree that shooting CineEI and using LUTS can be pretty simple - that's when you aren't in S&Q mode or using cache record - or trying to play back a clip you just shot, etc. It's then that the FS7 LUT system falls apart & can drive you batty. Again, I still love my FS7 and highly recommend the OP shoot in CineEI mode. But I find a whole lot less "gotcha's" by using an external monitor capable of displaying LUTs for many of my shoots where a client monitor, with a "corrected" preview image is necessary.
 
Mknobil said:
To parade my ignorance further, I confess since having this camera from the time it was first available in the US, I have rarely explored the CineEI side of the camera. Every time I waded in to that side, it seemed like nothing but mysterious barriers. Barriers, like ganging the viewfinder and internal record together for applying LUTs..
Clearly it is time for me to take one of Doug's classes!!
Until then, I will continue turning up the contrast and chroma saturation on the client monitor. :)
Click to expand...


Yes - buy Doug's book or take his online course... I still have a copy of his book in my camera bag just in case.
 
Well whatever you prefer to work. My point is only that its not complicated to use Cine EI. Does become more of an issue with S&Q. I use a an Odyssey so if there's a LUT in the monitor it follow out to the client monitor.
 
Mknobil said:
Barriers, like ganging the viewfinder and internal record together for applying LUTs..
)
Click to expand...

That can happen if you have "Distortion Compensation" turned on. If that is turned ON you cannot apply a LUT without it being burnt into the file. This applies to many Sony E-Mount lenses on the FS7. Having "Distortion Compensation" ON in the lens menu under System causes the LUTs to be frozen out. With distortion compensation turned OFF you can run your VF LUT and still record a clean LOG file. That is the main reason why the Sony EP Z 18-110mm F4 zoom lens addendum instructions stipulate turn lens Compensation to OFF as it doesn't need compensation because it is optically correct on the FS7. The problem is that not all Sony lenses will allow you to access the camera menu to turn off the lens comp function.

https://docs.sony.com/release//Flyer_4695209011.pdf

Chris Young
 
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