Moire

S

SplitFieldDiopter

Active member
EDIT: This thread can be closed or erased, or left for learning purposes, but the problem was NONEXISTENT.
###########Problem was solved. The moire on this image was caused FCP Log & Transfer window. After transcoding and taking a Full Resolution Screenshot, the moire is gone########################################

I know that this camera has supposedly gotten rid of the moire problem that has been plaguing DSLRS, but I just want to make sure people still don't allow their actors/subjects to wear very fine patterned clothing because the problem does still exist.

This is something that I thought I could forget about and stupidly I didn't specify to the actors that this kind of clothing should have been off limits.
 

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Whoa! I've seen occasional moire with the AF, but it's been very subtle, nothing like what your image shows. Could there be something else going on here, or was his shirt just the perfect storm of moire causing patterns?
 
It was the shirt. Every other shot was fine with that shirt. And I shot about 4 cards worth of footage. It must have been the angle. I don't know. I was shocked though. IT'S AWFUL.
 
moire can happen with almost any digital camera and even on film after being digitized and compressed for certain formats... BBVD? had a great quote about seeing Morie in Missiion inposible 3? on DVD...
But that shirt should make you double check monitor... another reason to have talent always bring multiple wardrobe options if possible.
 
Well, I admittedly had detail cranked, at least from what I see others settings at. V Detail was at 0 and the other was at +3.

Lens used was a Zeiss Compact Prime 35mm.

The only reason I felt the need to post this was because I've heard MANY MANY claims that this camera had VERY little moire problems and and also that the skew caused by rolling shutter was insignificant.

While I think the camera is REALLY REALLY well made and 99% of the time I had a blast shooting this short with it, these problems are not "gone." Just wanted to make people aware (probably something most of you knew anyway)

Also because this problem is so drastic in this shot. I mean, it looks TERRIBLE. Like I said though, the rest of the 3 cards worth of this same shirt turned out just fine.

Actually, that makes it more frightening to me. If 95% of the time something looks okay, but then under a certain circumstance it just becomes this whole other thing.
 
Truth be told that this camera does have little moire issues. No one said none. Also, the rolling shutter is still there because it's a CMOS sensor. Like you said, 95% of the shots don't have this issue. Trust me, the other cameras would have a very different ratio. I don't think many people here are shooting with a + detail setting. On top of that, the Zeiss lens is very sharp. The issue looks isolated that some post work will easily remedy this.
 
Also Zeiss lenses are razor sharp- that plus detail cranked = recipe for strongest imaginable moire. Fun. :)

Noah
 
On shoots with actors I always, always told the agents - For warddrobe - No fine stripes or patterns. Of course some actors would show up wearing shirts like the one your guy had on....
I always would bring 6 or 7 sizes of blue, white and sometimes cream colored shirts. I would sometimes forget to get the shirt back - sometimes the actor would send it back - but it
was much cheaper than re-shooting or extensive post work. One time a female actor showed up with a fine pattern blouse. It was moire city. My producer said we only had mens shirts.
So I shot back - "I guess we will have to shoot her topless!" - We went to Ross real quick instead.
 
HVX guy- That's a good one!

Maarek- That could be the problem. I was viewing this in Final Cut's Log & Transfer window.

I doubt it though. Every other shot in the movie looks fine.


I was using the camera with Detail set to -7 but I felt that the image looked too soft. It kept creeping up to -5, -3, 0, and finally +3 until I was finally happy with the image.

-7 looks great for web delivery, but if I watched it on a 27 inch monitor, full resolution, it looked blurry to my eye. I could be wrong?

Also, I think the noise, while more prominent with the higher detail setting, looked better. When I had detail cranked down and I let the frame underexpose a bit I got really ugly, blocky, digital looking artifacts. With the detail cranked up a bit it looked more like how film grain would look in my experience.
 
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Moire is really dependent on focal length,relation of the camera to the subject and of course the type of pattern causing the moire. I have seen Moire on my AF once where a guy with a black and white hound's tooth jacket with a very small pattern sat in for an interview. We had him take the jacket off when I saw a small amount of moire.

You might have gotten a bit too comfortable with the article of clothing if you did not see moire at first, but given what the shirt looks like, I would have been expecting it to pop up at any moment.
 
The AF-100 has FAR less moire and aliasing than any DSLR.

Increasing your detail compounded the issue greatly.

Textures like this on my 5dmkii would have been totally unusable.

Screen%20shot%202011-02-26%20at%202.25.06%20PM.png
 
I think the shirt listed as the offender in the beginning of this post would have made a 5d or 7d spontaneously combust... as would the jacket in the above photo. Dial out some detail from your AF and be on the look out for moire. You won't find much moire with an AF but it can happen.
 
Even an F3 or alexa can do that.

Its about the black and white lines lining up the pattern of the pixels. It goes nuclear.

Move the cam back or forth a few inches, or move talent.
 
SplitFieldDiopter said:
Maarek- That could be the problem. I was viewing this in Final Cut's Log & Transfer window.
Click to expand...
This is most likely the issue. Grab a full-res frame and let's see it.

The AF100 can exhibit a little aliasing on extremely fine black and white lines. But it's nothing whatsoever like what the DSLRs do. It is at least a 99.5% reduction against what you'd get with a DSLR.
 
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