FS7: Mixed light conditions Custom or Cine IE ?

here is some takes from a shoot all in custom HG8 except the driving sideshow is custom slog2 just adjusted contrast and highlights and shadows in post, as one would without knowing much about color grading. A client that can't do even that can go somewhere else.
Shot on the Fuji 18-55

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3yx52qvosx1pzea/dementia.mov?dl=0





Liam Hall said:
My camera has over 900 hours on it. I reckon probably less than two have been spent in custom mode. Can some of you custom shooters post a link to actual footage you've shot rather than just stills? Icurusfilm's frames look lovely and all, but I'd rather see actual moving pics. Cheer all.
Click to expand...
 
I am curious how many of you Cine EI guys do your own grading or just hand the footage to your clients. I suspect most of the "Custom Boys " hand it off.
Show of hands please?
 
I hand off all footage.. its sometimes a reason I dont want to "over expose" LOG footage ... from the worry it will just be seen as footage with the wrong exposure.. how ever much Ive tried to let post and production company know the reason why..
 
10% clients camera and settings - im operaor not dop - probably rental camera
70% shoot edit colour
10% DIt it - aka add lut export as pro res (all cams from GoPro to fs7) - deliver "edit ready" to client
10% hand off slog - usually horror results
10% hand off custom 50mb 422 - usually horror results
5% grade for client after the cut
 
In the 2+ years of FS7 ownership, I've done 2 handover shoots, both Cine EI/SLog3 - everything else I'm producing myself, so I get to fix all of my cockups.

Ben.
 
icarusfilm said:
here is some takes from a shoot all in custom HG8 except the driving sideshow is custom slog2 just adjusted contrast and highlights and shadows in post, as one would without knowing much about color grading. A client that can't do even that can go somewhere else.
Shot on the Fuji 18-55

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3yx52qvosx1pzea/dementia.mov?dl=0
Click to expand...

Thanks Icarusfilm, much appreciated. Nice shooting, and great to see the 18-55 in action. It's a different look for sure, not horrific, but different.

I have a couple of clients that claim they know how to post Slog, yet when I see the results, (which they love), I see that they simply slap on a LUT, whack up the saturation and move on. In short, they have no idea, and won't admit it, so I'm thinking of giving them footage that is already dialled in. The thought of shooting custom still makes me come out in a cold sweat, but good to see some decent footage.
 
LennyLevy said:
I am curious how many of you Cine EI guys do your own grading or just hand the footage to your clients. I suspect most of the "Custom Boys " hand it off.
Show of hands please?
Click to expand...


I've just gone through my diary, in the last 12 months I've handed over 78% of my jobs to clients. Of those jobs, I'd say about 50% ended up with an editor who knew what he was doing with log.
 
LennyLevy said:
Donny - are you a log guy or a custom guy? sounds like mostly log. Is that what your clients ask for?
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Shoot both.. what ever the client wants.. Slog is usually the higher level work.. and I have to hope they know what they are doing.. usually make a point in the first emails to state clearly that log will need full grade.. also to cover my own arse if things go to hell in a hand basket.. often bad in a LUT.. but if I know alot of florrie lights I go custom as I found the FL matrix setting or cinema really gets rid of the green of old florrie bulbs.. and HG 3 or 4 .. or 7 and 8..on an F5 this is not an Fs7.. I very rarely do white balances ..never did even in betasp days.. maybe because coming for s16mm.. only if it was weird lights.. I think its unnecessary to WB every shot..mind you I hardly ever use zebra,s or wave forms either.. if its day light its day light.. I,d rather keep it at 5,500.. than changing it everytime a cloud comes along.. or make a sun set not warm..
 
I mostly shoot docs shooting for days and days on the fs7, gimbal, drone producing 2-4 hrs of footage a day there is no way I could grade all of that at the end of a shooting day. And yes of the clients that think they can handle log only half do a decent job why that is? It's a mystery are we not alllooking at the same monitor? I spent 10 years as a director/journalist before picking up a camera and I would have never accepted those images on the screen as "the best I can do" and I don't get the editors. Anyway this is why it's still very important for me to be proficient in custom.


QUOTE=Liam Hall;1986694998]I've just gone through my diary, in the last 12 months I've handed over 78% of my jobs to clients. Of those jobs, I'd say about 50% ended up with an editor who knew what he was doing with log.[/QUOTE]
 
icarusfilm said:
here is some takes from a shoot all in custom HG8 except the driving sideshow is custom slog2 just adjusted contrast and highlights and shadows in post, as one would without knowing much about color grading. A client that can't do even that can go somewhere else.
Shot on the Fuji 18-55

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3yx52qvosx1pzea/dementia.mov?dl=0
Click to expand...

The house EXT? It looks ungraded?

'Entering the car' does not seem to match 'in the car' ?

Im not sure what you are showing here? Graded or 'ready to grade'
 
I know it is not an edit but is it a grade?

I think that is one of the problems for me with HG.. it sits in a hinterland of maybe needing a grade or maybe not.
Standard and Slog have clear workflows. No grade, grade.
 
I don't disagree it's a halfway house for sure I find the standard generally a no go unless the lighting is fully controlled I picked these shots because of the sting highlights in standard it would have been a blown out mess. I assume that every shot gets a tweak in the edit log would be the best solution but in lieu of a that hypergamma is an option. If it was up to me I would only shoot log and shoot hg. Only in lowlight etc.


QUOTE=morgan_moore;1986695010]I know it is not an edit but is it a grade?

I think that is one of the problems for me with HG.. it sits in a hinterland of maybe needing a grade or maybe not.
Standard and Slog have clear workflows. No grade, grade.[/QUOTE]
 
Sam, it's just a few rough and ready shots with minor tweaks that Icarusfilm put up because I asked to see some custom footage.

I think the point is HG is near enough that someone with average ability can nudge it into a useable state. It might not be perfect and it might not be what you and I are after, but I can see it's merit for a few clients.

My contention with Custom v Cine EI is my workflow on basic jobs, i.e. one's that are graded within the NLE, is so simple and so quick that I simply don't see the point of shooting custom. I can train someone in five minutes to get a handle on the workflow. Quite why so many editors seem to struggle with a basic log workflow is beyond me.
 
icarusfilm said:
I don't disagree it's a halfway house for sure I find the standard generally a no go unless the lighting is fully controlled I picked these shots because of the sting highlights in standard it would have been a blown out mess. I assume that every shot gets a tweak in the edit log would be the best solution but in lieu of a that hypergamma is an option. If it was up to me I would only shoot log and shoot hg. Only in lowlight etc.
Click to expand...



Im sure Standard is a no go.

Some custom mode that was a bit calmer than Standard but was essentially shot in camera and only 'graded' when the operator was in error and the footage needs 'fixing'

Obviously getting it right on location with a 709 bake is resource heavy.. grad NDs, HMIs, window ND, fill boards, and that is why log is better more attracive to the small production but if the client wants it shot in camera Id prefer to do that than live in a hinterland.
 
Liam Hall said:
Sam, it's just a few rough and ready shots with minor tweaks that Icarusfilm put up because I asked to see some custom footage.

I think the point is HG is near enough that someone with average ability can nudge it into a useable state. It might not be perfect and it might not be what you and I are after, but I can see it's merit for a few clients.

My contention with Custom v Cine EI is my workflow on basic jobs, i.e. one's that are graded within the NLE, is so simple and so quick that I simply don't see the point of shooting custom. I can train someone in five minutes to get a handle on the workflow. Quite why so many editors seem to struggle with a basic log workflow is beyond me.
Click to expand...

Im not knocking his footage, (which is nice!) just the workflow.

Im a black and white guy..

I dont buy 'nudging'

Either you are grading the material and need to be a proper grader* who can handle Slog (it takes 10mins to learn to apply a LUT) or it needs to be 'edit ready' either because the client is a total numptie or because it is going out (being broadcast) in 10 mins and there is no time to grade.

Incidentally as operators/shooters, we should IMO board the LUT we are shooting for and send it with the footage to the editor.

*actually anyone under 40 not using FCP7 can handle Slog with 10 mins of help.
 
This is a doc about dementia no lighting at all (dementia patients get very agitated by bright lights. All handheld. Again log would be optimal but I know the client will not figure it out. Generally rule of thumb is the client over 35? Shoot HG. Under 35 slog.

morgan_moore said:
Im sure Standard is a no go.

Some custom mode that was a bit calmer than Standard but was essentially shot in camera and only 'graded' when the operator was in error and the footage needs 'fixing'

Obviously getting it right on location with a 709 bake is resource heavy.. grad NDs, HMIs, window ND, fill boards, and that is why log is better more attracive to the small production but if the client wants it shot in camera Id prefer to do that than live in a hinterland.
Click to expand...
 
morgan_moore said:
Im not knocking his footage, (which is nice!) just the workflow.

Im a black and white guy..

I dont buy 'nudging'

Either you are grading the material and need to be a proper grader* who can handle Slog (it takes 10mins to learn to apply a LUT) or it needs to be 'edit ready' either because the client is a total numptie or because it is going out (being broadcast) in 10 mins and there is no time to grade.

Incidentally as operators/shooters, we should IMO board the LUT we are shooting for and send it with the footage to the editor.

*actually anyone under 40 not using FCP7 can handle Slog with 10 mins of help.
Click to expand...

I agree Sam (except, the under 40 bit). I always supply LUTs to those that need them, and usually show the producer what it 'should' look like on set or during DITing at the end of the shoot. The problem arises with those people who don't like to admit they need help.
 
If I could have 5mins in the edit suite I could teach a monkey to work with luts and basic grading. My clients are from all over the US and Many from Germany so it's not an option. If shooting and FTPing something I do sonetimes for news clients I rough cut and grade in resolve which I use also to output an h264 at 10000-7000 kb/s but I still shoot it in HG in case it needs to be satellited out of camera.


QUOTE=morgan_moore;1986695015]Im not knocking his footage, (which is nice!) just the workflow.

Im a black and white guy..

I dont buy 'nudging'

Either you are grading the material and need to be a proper grader* who can handle Slog (it takes 10mins to learn to apply a LUT) or it needs to be 'edit ready' either because the client is a total numptie or because it is going out (being broadcast) in 10 mins and there is no time to grade.

Incidentally as operators/shooters, we should IMO board the LUT we are shooting for and send it with the footage to the editor.

*actually anyone under 40 not using FCP7 can handle Slog with 10 mins of help.[/QUOTE]
 
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