minimum crew size for $30,000 - 50,000 indie ?

LaForce said:
really anyone can get a decent image and quality of sound without too much screwing around.
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See, no. That's the kind of **** that's going to get your feature into the hands of a small-time regional dvd distributor. That's not a good thing.
 
sonofaresiii said:
See, no. That's the kind of s*%t that's going to get your feature into the hands of a small-time regional dvd distributor. That's not a good thing.
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Not having a name will get you into a small-time regional dvd distributor, even with decent image and sound.
 
Making a $50k film is EXTREMELY difficult even with wealth of experience so i would say do a few more shorts so that with the experience you will be able to answer your own question. I know people want to fast-forward their careers and jump into deep water quickly but it can actually hurt you more then you think (such as with all the difficulties you might loose love of filmmkaing).
 
Patryk_Rebisz said:
Making a $50k film is EXTREMELY difficult even with wealth of experience so i would say do a few more shorts so that with the experience you will be able to answer your own question. I know people want to fast-forward their careers and jump into deep water quickly but it can actually hurt you more then you think (such as with all the difficulties you might loose love of filmmkaing).
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He's got a point here. My first film was at a budget of $10K and a total disaster!
 
Having worked on an independent feature film that was shot for tens of thousands of dollars as opposed to hundreds of thousands of dollars and was eventually distributed by Sony Pictures Classics theatrically, here would be my suggestions for a minimal crew for a $30,000 to $50,000 feature film shooting budget:
Producer, Director, Assistant Director, Line Producer/Script Supervisor/Continuity, Craft Services, Sound Recordist, Boom Op, Director of Photography/Camera Op, 1st AC/Loader, 2nd AC/Camera PA, Gaffer, Grip/Driver and Wardrobe Dept/Makeup Dept.

If you see a forward slash - / - that implies the wearing of multiple hats with the primary job being listed first.

Keep in mind that a minimal crew should be highly skilled because they will be asked to do more than if they took on a normal production job; because of this, at the very least, they should receive deferred pay and decent food while working. If you've never directed a feature, appreciate that this type of limited crew with the skill set to work like this has probably worked on countless projects to attain their skill level, so be respectful of that if you are a first-time director.

Friends and family are only useful, typically, for the following:
Extras, Grips, Drivers, some Craft Services, some Wardrobe Dept/Makeup Dept duties and PAs.

Assigning other duties to friends and family on a stressful movie set can lead to:
Ended friendships, angry relatives, break ups and even divorce. I do not jest; proceed with caution!

Finally... good luck.
 
robert rodriquez would laugh at some of the over the top talk we have here. just shoot the movie. get your actors who are not in that particular scene/shot to do stuff your small crew cannot. within your budget I seriously doubt your actors or crew will be upset with diversifying. if needs be get more cast members (who usually work for free) in so they are free to help when not in shot.

I cant fathom in this modern society where we have such compact equipment why we see crew members as 'focus pullers', 2nd and 3rd! AD's, 3 men doing sound etc etc etc. at this budget I see these people as more distortions to the vision of the piece than helpful, added meat who usually dont drive, who need transporting, lodgings and feeding. Why not just have a main DOP, a writer/director handling a B-Cam, lighting guy, boom operator (with recording device taped to his belt) and the cast? Make it happen with the minimum fuss and organisation. If you are attempting a low budget horror and none of your four crew mentioned above can muck in, undertaking set dressing, makeup efx, etc the genre isnt for you.
 
richg101 said:
robert rodriquez would laugh at some of the over the top talk we have here....
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I was kind of thinking the same thing the past few days actually. I do appreciate all the feedback here from everybody, but I could not help but wonder about the exponentially increasing size of the crew discussed, when for cryin out loud rodriguez did it all with a crew of one or two and that was with film; today we have compact digital equipment. In a pinch (not optimal, but possible) I could direct, run the camera, set up lights, lav four actors and record wirelessly, have meals delivered; so it seems like an ultra small talented crew and everybody wearing a few hats could 'get it done'; of course a large crew would be more Hollywood, but it just seems like a decent film could get done with a very small talented crew and the actors, RED camera (for cryin out loud, with RED you do not even have to worry about ISO/exposure, you decide on and edit exposure in post!).
R
 
Randall_Oelerich said:
I was kind of thinking the same thing the past few days actually. I do appreciate all the feedback here from everybody, but I could not help but wonder about the exponentially increasing size of the crew discussed, when for cryin out loud rodriguez did it all with a crew of one or two and that was with film; today we have compact digital equipment. In a pinch (not optimal, but possible) I could direct, run the camera, set up lights, lav four actors and record wirelessly, have meals delivered; so it seems like an ultra small talented crew and everybody wearing a few hats could 'get it done'; of course a large crew would be more Hollywood, but it just seems like a decent film could get done with a very small talented crew and the actors, RED camera (for cryin out loud, with RED you do not even have to worry about ISO/exposure, you decide on and edit exposure in post!).
R
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Well...

Kholi said:
As many people as you need on each day.

There were times when it was just myself and a camera (pick up days).
Sometimes myself, producer, make-up, sound.
Average day was about eight on crew (mostly what corpse listed)
Biggest days I feel like were about twelve to fifteen just crew.

So, when you need it to be big, spend on those days. When you don't, don't spend.
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THat was posted on the first page. But, what do you expect people to say? They'll always project from experiences or what they think they'll need. If you feel like you can do it with less then just go and do it?

Also, you do need to worry about exposure with RED or any other camera. Just clearing that misconception up (although I think it was meant more loosely, just saying).
 
richg101 said:
robert rodriquez would laugh at some of the over the top talk we have here. just shoot the movie. get your actors who are not in that particular scene/shot to do stuff your small crew cannot. within your budget I seriously doubt your actors or crew will be upset with diversifying. if needs be get more cast members (who usually work for free) in so they are free to help when not in shot.
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Misinformation and ignorance - sorry mate but it's hard to call it anything else. Rodriquez have done a "thousands-and-one" short films before hands so he knew all the tricks including not to be too reliant on the "friends and family" crew. Moreover his film was a farce where good acting is not necessary so having people simply show up and deliver lines - oh and hold a reflector sometimes too is fine. On anything else... Have you ever seen a a good actor preparing for the next scene? The intensity it takes?? And you want the guy to also adjust the reflector for you? It's madness.
 
Randall_Oelerich said:
I was kind of thinking the same thing the past few days actually. I do appreciate all the feedback here from everybody, but I could not help but wonder about the exponentially increasing size of the crew discussed, when for cryin out loud rodriguez did it all with a crew of one or two and that was with film; today we have compact digital equipment. In a pinch (not optimal, but possible) I could direct, run the camera, set up lights, lav four actors and record wirelessly, have meals delivered; so it seems like an ultra small talented crew and everybody wearing a few hats could 'get it done'; of course a large crew would be more Hollywood, but it just seems like a decent film could get done with a very small talented crew and the actors, RED camera (for cryin out loud, with RED you do not even have to worry about ISO/exposure, you decide on and edit exposure in post!).R
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Randal, if you know the answer yourself then go ahead and do it. If not i strongly suggest to take those preconcived assumptions and test those out in real life scenario. Shoot a few scenes over the weekend - that way you will know what works and what doesn't.
 
Kholi said:
...Also, you do need to worry about exposure with RED or any other camera. Just clearing that misconception up (although I think it was meant more loosely, just saying).
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What I meant was that with RED you of course expose somewhat by setting the shutter, frame rate, but RED recommends (as my friend who got a RED recently explained to me) in their user manual that you just set the ISO to 800 and 'fuggetaboutit' because recording in RAW mode, just like RAW with a still camera, you then adjust exposure in post-production so you do not really need to worry much about exposure during shooting.

Came across this website interview with Rodriguez today, interesting:
http://www.moviemaker.com/directing/article/the_reformation_of_a_rebel_without_a_crew_3141/
 
"I cant fathom in this modern society where we have such compact equipment why we see crew members as 'focus pullers', 2nd and 3rd! AD's, 3 men doing sound etc etc etc."

Because that's what it takes to do the job "right". A good focus puller is worth his weight in gold because you don't do the shot three extra times to get the focus pull correct. The multiple skilled sound guys is money you don't spend on a $250/hour post sound guy trying to fix your bad production audio. You get by on less if you have to, but in virtually every case the product suffers.

El Mariachi sucked, balls, it looked like crap and sounded like crap and the studio had to spend several hundred thousand bucks cleaning it up to the point where they could actually release it. What it did have was Rodriguez excellent story telling skills that helped it transcend the terrible production. As soon as Rodriguez had access to money for his films guess what... he spent a bunch of money on his films because it's exponentially easier to make a good film when you have adequate resources.

We talk about the production triangle (under various names) all the time.

Good
Fast
Cheap
Pick two.

Lack of budget and/or lack of crew is cheap , but it takes a lot of time. You can get almost the same result as the crew of 40 spending $100K a day, but it's gonna take a long, long, long time.
 
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Let's not forget that Rodriguez released to an American audience with a spanish dubbed and english subtitled film. Most of the audience wasn't even paying attention to the audible dialogue, they were reading it... so he got more leeway that it didn't match and sounded terrible.
 
Jon Thorn said:
Friends and family are only useful, typically, for the following:
Extras, Grips, Drivers, some Craft Services, some Wardrobe Dept/Makeup Dept duties and PAs.
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Not just anyone can pick up a c-stand and set it properly, let alone rig heavy lights over your lead actors heads.

To say that someone with little to no experience could be a grip is a pretty upsetting suggestion. PA's and drivers, sure, grips? No way.
 
RyanT said:
Not just anyone can pick up a c-stand and set it properly, let alone rig heavy lights over your lead actors heads.

To say that someone with little to no experience could be a grip is a pretty upsetting suggestion. PA's and drivers, sure, grips? No way.
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I agree
 
RyanT said:
Not just anyone can pick up a c-stand and set it properly, let alone rig heavy lights over your lead actors heads.
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Oh come on, you're just being nitpicky. Who really cares if a few actors get banged up by improperly fastened lighting equipment?
 
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