Micro Gimbal for GH4, BMPCC, A7s - $699 USD
- Thread starter HHL
- Start date
Shape iSee+ : $699 Pre-Order
- Two axis gimbal stabilized on the tilt and roll axis brushless motors
- Ready to use with several preset calibration included, no need to recalibrate or download software
- Bracket with ¼-20 screw to fix the camera on the gimbal
- 5 ¼-20 threaded holes on the handle for attachment
- Tilt up and down control joystick
- Push button technology for different handle angles
- 2 LP-E6 batteries
- Designed to accommodate several small body cameras like:
- Sony A7S
- Panasonic GH4
- Blackmagic Pocket Cimena Camera
- Sony NEX-7
- Small DSLRs
- iPhone 6+
- Galaxy Note
- Two axis gimbal stabilized on the tilt and roll axis brushless motors
- Ready to use with several preset calibration included, no need to recalibrate or download software
- Bracket with ¼-20 screw to fix the camera on the gimbal
- 5 ¼-20 threaded holes on the handle for attachment
- Tilt up and down control joystick
- Push button technology for different handle angles
- 2 LP-E6 batteries
- Designed to accommodate several small body cameras like:
- Sony A7S
- Panasonic GH4
- Blackmagic Pocket Cimena Camera
- Sony NEX-7
- Small DSLRs
- iPhone 6+
- Galaxy Note
nyvz
Veteran
Not totally sure I get the point of a 2axis stabilizer. What do you do with an unstabilized pan axis? Hard to imagine any circumstance where you'd want a $700 2axis stabilizer when Nebula has 3axis for the same price. Plus it has two sides where the camera's side inputs and buttons get blocked...
I'm trying to visualise exactly what stabilised in two axes means. Isn't similar to panning with a tripod? That's to say that the gimbal or tripod keeps it stable in two axes and you're responsible for panning smoothly in the third.
The advantage this has over the Nebula is the payload that it can carry.
photochris
Well-known member
Great job and a really cool subject. I hate particleboard and I try to be as renewable as possible with my home. I want a house of shrooms.
Which is probably ok as long as you don't want a static shot in the panning axis, as you are going to have your own natural horizontal "wiggle" as you try and hold the horizontal axis steady. ( this could be fixed in post )
What I'm wondering about is... Are there any pistol-grip gimbals that can compensate for the natural rise and drop from walking with the stabilizer ? Because I don't see this type of motion with the standard two-handed gimbals, just these one-handed pistol-grip models.
DPStewart
Veteran
This effect is most caused by the technique of the user.
Try it:
Grab a 1-handled item - like a cordless drill - and start walking. Notice that you will very strongly tend to just walk normally - with a normal bob up and down.
Now grab 2 things that you can hold in exactly the same way as a 2-handled gimbal - and with a similar weight as the gimbal+camera setup would be - hold it out in front of you and start walking. You'll notice that now there is a very strong natural tendency to walk differently - to walk more smoothly with less bob up and down. As far as I can tell this is a natural orthopedic tendency our bodies display - changing our gait when holding something with both hands in front of us.
Evolution at work.
So two hands on a pistol-grip will cure this phenomena ?
mainstreetprod
Veteran
A couple of users have put the Nebula on a fig rig, effectively turning it into a two handle gimbal. It seems to get rid of the bobbing somewhat, maybe because of what DP Stewart said above.
nyvz
Veteran
Stabilized it two axes means it compensates for high and medium frequency movement in the tilt and roll axes. That means if you are walking or moving the rig and you accidentally sway the pan back and forth as you walk or your hand shakes or trembles as you are holding the camera, that sway/shake in the pan axis will not be removed or stabilized at all.
A tripod is essentially 6-axis stabilizer in that it keeps your camera in the same place in all 3 translational axes and keeps your camera pointing the same way in the 3 rotational axes with stabilized movement allowed in the tilt and pan axes. Trying to get a stable shot with a 2-axis stabilizer is like using your tripod but without the legs and with the drag completely off in the pan axis. It won't be easy to get smooth shots without panning errors.
Interesting to see how it performs when it arrives. It would be nice to have a gimbal that can act almost like a tripod, but as TheDingo points out a little Warp Stabilizer goes a long with gimbal footage. Often, it wouldn't be a problem for me if the gimbal footage looks hand-held, in fact it would be what I wanted, as long is it doesn't look too hand-held. The biggest drawback, as you point out, will be the lack of the assisted pan mode.
Regarding the walking problem, it seems to me that even though the new gimbals are an order of magnitude easier to use than the Steadicam and its derivatives, there's still a fair amount of operator skill required. Different people seem to be getting very different results using exactly the same equipment.
NAB has been and gone, and there's still no sign of a 3-axis gimbal with extra carrying capacity. I'm starting to wonder if there is currently some technical limitation holding the development back.
Regarding the walking problem, it seems to me that even though the new gimbals are an order of magnitude easier to use than the Steadicam and its derivatives, there's still a fair amount of operator skill required. Different people seem to be getting very different results using exactly the same equipment.
NAB has been and gone, and there's still no sign of a 3-axis gimbal with extra carrying capacity. I'm starting to wonder if there is currently some technical limitation holding the development back.
MikeNykoruk
Member
Did you see the Helix Jr. ? $2900 for heavier the Helix $4000 with a Red on it. Seems like it solves many problems that the Movi has like easy eye level etc.
nyvz
Veteran
There will always be operator skill involved until we have artificial intelligence hovering motion control
Limitations will always exist at every budget level and skill is required to overcome them. If that weren't the case it would be no fun!
No 3axis gimbal with high payload?? Aren't they all higher payload than the nebula4000 or pilotfly? . What about the movi m5/10/15, helix and Jr, Ronin and mini, came, etc etc?
The BIGGEST limitation is the small market of enthusiast filmmakers. There may be hundreds of thousands of them, but most can't afford $700 on one camera mount device. That limits the amount of R&D dollars thrown at the technology. As Noah says, for professionals, the equipment is pretty good. Call me crazy, but I believe I could make a much better one for $100,000. I'd need to sell about 1,000 of them to begin to make it worthwhile, assuming I had to do little tech support, which we can see from the Nebula, ain't gonna happen
There are many people in this technology who know a lot more than I do; seems they've come to the same conclusion. Indeed, I think FilmPower has come to that conclusion!These are the technical challenges.
GOAL: To keep the camera balanced pointed in one direction. As Noah says, this is really 6 adjustments http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degrees_of_freedom_(mechanics)
What you need.
1. A device that tells you where the camera is, and where it should be. That is accomplished by an IMU (inertial measurement unit) and computer.
2. The mechanics to give the device freedom to move on each movement. A Noah pointed out, the 3 axis of the Nebula does NOT include the up/down/heave movement of the camera (walking).
3. Motors/power to move the camera into the desired position.
Because the technology cannot tell the difference between a bend in the frame, and actual movement of the devices, the structure must be vibration-proof. That's why the Nebula is heavy, for what it is. And why bigger ones are made of carbon composites. In either case, the more latitude you make for including different cameras the more risk you have of balance issues.
Because a stabilizer does NOT work without a properly balanced camera there is no way for the manufacturer to know if the reason it won't work for someone is balance or defect. This is not to say the people on this forum who have had trouble with it are at fault. No one knows. When I have problems with mine, I don't know. So it's a long, frustrating process trying to isolate the issue. It's difficult to make money selling equipment that requires at minimum 10 hours of learning time on the part of the user.
The holly-grail, at the moment, of the Nebula, is creating a self-balancing device, which would require a whole separate IMU, computer, 3 motors component. You would turn it on and the device would use motors to move the arms and plates into a position where the camera is balanced.
I greatly admire Noah's work with these devices. He uses enthusiast AND professional equipment on his shoots. His is the most important opinion here. So we can't let him sell his Nebula
DPStewart
Veteran
I think Mike meant "Single-handle" or "pistol grip" style.
Yes, if were going to get one of the bigger ones, that would definitely be the one would I would go for. I often want to film without drawing attention to myself, and whereas the single-handed gimbals with a mirrorless camera can just about pass for one of the many weird and wonderful contraptions that people use with phones, etc., I think it would be difficult to go unnoticed with a two-handed gimbal. Also, the jump from $700 to $2900 is pretty significant.
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Yes, you must be right. On the one hand, increasing the carrying capacity of the Nebula by a pound or two seems like an incremental increase, on the other hand that would be an increase of around 50-100%, which no longer sounds incremental.
Not getting a lot of heat from NAB as of yet, but judging by this video - the SHAPE ISEE+ could well be that slight step up from the Nebula that I'm looking for.
Do I want to pre-order though? I've not quite seen enough yet! But the guy at least looks and sounds legit. One guy at the Filmpower booth looked like a catwalk model, and had to read the words "Three axis digital gyroscope" off a script.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZT_TyxeWuw
Do I want to pre-order though? I've not quite seen enough yet! But the guy at least looks and sounds legit. One guy at the Filmpower booth looked like a catwalk model, and had to read the words "Three axis digital gyroscope" off a script.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZT_TyxeWuw
Agreed on all points.
Was disappointed the show did not feature new pistol products.
Also surprised that DJI did not show the product they introduced at CES.
Kinda doubt it will accommodate a camera other than theirs anyway.
nyvz
Veteran
Are there any accounts of people getting good results from a 2-axis gimbal? Seems kinda like having a 2-legged tripod. Maybe sometimes it's fine if you are careful and don't need fully stabilized shots but will probably always come up short. What happens when you start walking and your hand sways a little back and forth?